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Post by vicar on Mar 31, 2023 12:42:02 GMT
The Starmer combination of centrist economics and authoritarian identity politics just has absolutely no appeal to me whatsoever. With Corbyn, you knew what he stood for, even if I didn't like much of it. With Starmer, I've still absolutely no idea what he represents beyond 'we're better than the Tories' with a side order of 'and we're also morally superior than you' I see the current Labour party very much like the Blair government and I'd take more of that, I know this is old but it's all from the last Labour govt and people called them Tory Lite.
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Post by The Real Exile on Mar 31, 2023 12:51:40 GMT
First thing Blair did was get rid of MIRAS, I'd just got my first house, newborn on the way, cheers Tony....not that I'm still bitter in the slightest 🤣
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Post by HTC on Mar 31, 2023 13:13:26 GMT
The Starmer combination of centrist economics and authoritarian identity politics just has absolutely no appeal to me whatsoever. With Corbyn, you knew what he stood for, even if I didn't like much of it. With Starmer, I've still absolutely no idea what he represents beyond 'we're better than the Tories' with a side order of 'and we're also morally superior than you' I see the current Labour party very much like the Blair government and I'd take more of that, I know this is old but it's all from the last Labour govt and people called them Tory Lite.
Speaking as someone who rated / still rates the Blair era, three key differences. Blair stood for something - the whole ‘Third Way’ thing was a coherent position, aimed (if not always succeeding) at using the money earned through free market ideas to provide a larger social safety net, with a particular focus on improving productivity through education and encouraging hard working immigrants to arrive. The party understood what voters wanted - they didn’t always understand them individually (Mandelson’s guacamole / mushy peas gaffe) for example, but never gave the impression of looking down / feeling superior to people. Personal charisma - Blair has it, Starmer really really doesn’t. |
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Post by herbiedumplings on Mar 31, 2023 14:03:00 GMT
I see the current Labour party very much like the Blair government and I'd take more of that, I know this is old but it's all from the last Labour govt and people called them Tory Lite.
Speaking as someone who rated / still rates the Blair era, three key differences. Blair stood for something - the whole ‘Third Way’ thing was a coherent position, aimed (if not always succeeding) at using the money earned through free market ideas to provide a larger social safety net, with a particular focus on improving productivity through education and encouraging hard working immigrants to arrive. The party understood what voters wanted - they didn’t always understand them individually (Mandelson’s guacamole / mushy peas gaffe) for example, but never gave the impression of looking down / feeling superior to people. Personal charisma - Blair has it, Starmer really really doesn’t. Neither does Sunak really, but to a certain type of person, Boris is catnip. Like Trump. Unfortunately. |
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Post by HTC on Mar 31, 2023 14:14:48 GMT
Speaking as someone who rated / still rates the Blair era, three key differences. Blair stood for something - the whole ‘Third Way’ thing was a coherent position, aimed (if not always succeeding) at using the money earned through free market ideas to provide a larger social safety net, with a particular focus on improving productivity through education and encouraging hard working immigrants to arrive. The party understood what voters wanted - they didn’t always understand them individually (Mandelson’s guacamole / mushy peas gaffe) for example, but never gave the impression of looking down / feeling superior to people. Personal charisma - Blair has it, Starmer really really doesn’t. Neither does Sunak really, but to a certain type of person, Boris is catnip. Like Trump. Unfortunately. Agreed, and that's also neutered Starmer's main strength.
The 'I'm a serious, quietly competent politician, unlike that joker over there' line works when you're up against Johnson. It's less effective when you're up against another slightly dull technocrat like Sunak.
generally speaking, British politics goes on a charismatic / dull cycle anyway - if you ignore the Truss interregnum, Cameron is the only one that doesn't really fit, but even then, you'd struggle to argue he had less about him on that front than Brown or May.
Thatcher Major Blair Brown Cameron May Johnson Sunak
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Post by David Schofield on Mar 31, 2023 16:38:00 GMT
Neither does Sunak really, but to a certain type of person, Boris is catnip. Like Trump. Unfortunately. Agreed, and that's also neutered Starmer's main strength.
The 'I'm a serious, quietly competent politician, unlike that joker over there' line works when you're up against Johnson. It's less effective when you're up against another slightly dull technocrat like Sunak.
generally speaking, British politics goes on a charismatic / dull cycle anyway - if you ignore the Truss interregnum, Cameron is the only one that doesn't really fit, but even then, you'd struggle to argue he had less about him on that front than Brown or May.
Thatcher Major Blair Brown Cameron May Johnson Sunak
I feel like that interregnum deserves a round of applause 👏 👏👏 |
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Post by bigmartin on Mar 31, 2023 22:11:30 GMT
And it's all great...
Really...admirable. And I totally get it.
Left winger hand-wringing about their left wing party not being perfect.
But DO NOT COME ON HERE WHINGING ABOUT HOW BAD THINGS ARE IN 4 YEARS if the Tories get back in and you had a chance to seal the deal to avoid that scenario.
That's all.
The very fact that you are on here writing all this utter claptrap reinforces the view that I've always had that the Tories know PRECISELY how to play this game. And they're beating you at it once again.
By the way...I wanted Corbyn. But hey, life's a complete f*cking shithouse. Then you get another 20 years of Tory, and die. Knowing that at least you didn't fold and vote for that bloke Starmer. Shrug.
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Post by Count de Stockport on Apr 1, 2023 7:36:13 GMT
And it's all great... Really...admirable. And I totally get it. Left winger hand-wringing about their left wing party not being perfect. But DO NOT COME ON HERE WHINGING ABOUT HOW BAD THINGS ARE IN 4 YEARS if the Tories get back in and you had a chance to seal the deal to avoid that scenario. That's all. The very fact that you are on here writing all this utter claptrap reinforces the view that I've always had that the Tories know PRECISELY how to play this game. And they're beating you with it once again. By the way...I wanted Corbyn. But hey, life's a complete f*cking shithouse. Then you get another 20 years of Tory, and die. Knowing that at least you didn't fold and vote for that bloke Starmer. Shrug. I’ll whinge all I like, regardless of who I vote for 😊 It’s not democracy unless someone’s whinging |
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Post by timberwolf on Apr 1, 2023 8:07:46 GMT
By the way...I wanted Corbyn. But hey, life's a complete f*cking shithouse. Then you get another 20 years of Tory, and die. Knowing that at least you didn't fold and vote for that bloke Starmer. Shrug. Someone like corbyn and his policies are wanted by lifelong labour votors. However it needed someone like blair to get rid of the tories for 13 years. Those who want a corbyn type will never get there way as they would be fighting the MSM from day 1 and many still believe it. If people feel that bad about the tories they need to get behind starmer as its their only choice. |
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Post by bigmartin on Apr 1, 2023 9:50:35 GMT
And it's all great... Really...admirable. And I totally get it. Left winger hand-wringing about their left wing party not being perfect. But DO NOT COME ON HERE WHINGING ABOUT HOW BAD THINGS ARE IN 4 YEARS if the Tories get back in and you had a chance to seal the deal to avoid that scenario. That's all. The very fact that you are on here writing all this utter claptrap reinforces the view that I've always had that the Tories know PRECISELY how to play this game. And they're beating you with it once again. By the way...I wanted Corbyn. But hey, life's a complete f*cking shithouse. Then you get another 20 years of Tory, and die. Knowing that at least you didn't fold and vote for that bloke Starmer. Shrug. I’ll whinge all I like, regardless of who I vote for 😊 It’s not democracy unless someone’s whinging Ditto. I'm tired of hearing Lefties whining because their guy in charge is less than their perfect ideal, whilst right wingers argue amongst themselves whilst in the innumerably stronger position of holding all our destinies in their dirty, grubby, grifting, hands. We'll never win again. The Right will galvanise (it's already beginning). The left will fall apart (it's already beginning). It's how it's always been, apart from that small decade of hope in the 90s/00s. If required there'll be a little nudge from MSM in a couple of years to seal the deal. |
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Post by herbiedumplings on Apr 1, 2023 10:10:54 GMT
Anyone who promises to get Pete Tong to stop pluralising “Ninja Tunes” gets my vote.
I may be in a niche interest group.
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Post by bigmartin on Apr 2, 2023 7:46:13 GMT
By the way...I wanted Corbyn. But hey, life's a complete f*cking shithouse. Then you get another 20 years of Tory, and die. Knowing that at least you didn't fold and vote for that bloke Starmer. Shrug. Someone like corbyn and his policies are wanted by lifelong labour votors. However it needed someone like blair to get rid of the tories for 13 years. Those who want a corbyn type will never get there way as they would be fighting the MSM from day 1 and many still believe it. If people feel that bad about the tories they need to get behind starmer as its their only choice. I totally agree with you. We need to get these out. Simple as that. It's just not right that these crooks are in power. If there was a more moderate Conservative party, like a gang with proper fiscal responsibility and sensible policy rather than this pseudo-Trumpian outfit they've now become, I could stomach losing the next General Election. But this bunch of...ffff...f*cking psychopaths. I don't think I could stand another four, eight, twelve years of them (not that I have any choice). Jesus, they don't even look after my financial interests anymore and that used to be the thing that kept me sane. |
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Post by canterbury on Apr 2, 2023 14:45:33 GMT
The outlook appears terrible for the Tories because they're not just behind in the polls overall, crucially they're also losing on home turf. When more than 7 in 10 people don't think they're the better option to handle the economy they look finished. Meanwhile on handling Crime they're not just lagging behind the Labour Party but the "Don't Know" Party has now relegated them into third.  This is from Feb but shows the gap between Tory priorities and what people feel really matters to their life, while they try and create a big hoo-ha about stopping boats, opinion has moved on - these days three in every four people are more concerned on what the hell's happening to our once proud economy.  |
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Post by Stranded Hatter on Apr 2, 2023 15:48:45 GMT
The outlook appears terrible for the Tories because they're not just behind in the polls overall, crucially they're also losing on home turf. When more than 7 in 10 people don't think they're the better option to handle the economy they look finished. Meanwhile on handling Crime they're not just lagging behind the Labour Party but the "Don't Know" Party has now relegated them into third. This is from Feb but shows the gap between Tory priorities and what people feel really matters to their life, while they try and create a big hoo-ha about stopping boats, opinion has moved on - these days three in every four people are more concerned on what the hell's happening to our once proud economy. I wonder if the great lie about the Tories being good for the economy (they never have been) is finally breaking |
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Post by edjelley on Apr 2, 2023 17:29:50 GMT
The outlook appears terrible for the Tories because they're not just behind in the polls overall, crucially they're also losing on home turf. When more than 7 in 10 people don't think they're the better option to handle the economy they look finished. Meanwhile on handling Crime they're not just lagging behind the Labour Party but the "Don't Know" Party has now relegated them into third. This is from Feb but shows the gap between Tory priorities and what people feel really matters to their life, while they try and create a big hoo-ha about stopping boats, opinion has moved on - these days three in every four people are more concerned on what the hell's happening to our once proud economy. Good |
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