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Post by Barmy Blue Army on Oct 22, 2020 0:31:25 GMT
Not read every post in this thread, but I’m a bit fed up of clubs pissing and whining about this decision. They’re getting a handout. How that’s shared has to be decided somehow. I appreciate that’s easy for us to say as the main beneficiaries, but these circumstances are really something no-one could have prepared for; and frankly, even if we work on a ‘lost attendances’ model, us and Notts will still be the main beneficiaries. But I’ve got very little time for the likes of Darlington, Chester and Maidstone sulking because Boreham Wood are getting more money than they are. Like it or not, Boreham Wood are in the division above you. Relatively, their travel costs are higher. Their operational costs are likely higher. Their overnighting costs are higher. Their wages are probably higher. It’s a well-accepted precedent in football that clubs in higher divisions get relatively higher proportions of the pie than those in lower divisions. If this was money split between League 2 and the National League, I’d expect the League 2 clubs to get relatively more than us. I get that there’s a structural unfairness in all of this, but football is structurally unfair. How things are distributed in the long term is a valid question for another day, but not a conversation for the here and now. I also tend to find those shouting the loudest are also those who appear to be the most unsustainable. If Maidstone didn’t want to have concerns about cash flow, perhaps they shouldn’t have decided to stay full time in the sixth tier, in the middle of a f*cking pandemic. I had a quick read of the Chester message board after I read this and they do make some good points. Primarily that the stated purpose of this funding, from the National Lottery, was ''to help cover their (NL clubs) lost gate revenue from the delay to fans being permitted to return, that was originally scheduled for 1 October.'' (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/10-million-lifeline-from-the-national-lottery-for-national-league-football-announced-by-culture-secretary) If that's the case then overheads (travel, wages etc.) shouldn't come in to it. That's up to clubs to manage based on their revenue streams that, at this level, mainly consist of ticket/matchday income. Though I accept that increased streaming revenues may help balance it out a bit. tiny.cc/subsidyNLSomeone's run the numbers (link above) and in fact we come out it worse than Chester, losing nearly £200k than if the money was just split on last season's gate receipts, second only to Notts County (though I'd expect we would have averaged 5,000+ so far in normal times). It also highlights how our league (mainly the smaller Southern clubs...) has received a disproportionate amount of the funding (over £500k), which has come at the expense of the NLN. On the flip side, who is the main beneficiary? Boreham Wood. Who is the MP for BW? Oliver Dowden, Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (which includes The National Lottery)... I'll let you make your own minds whether that's significant... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hertsmere_(UK_Parliament_constituency)) I know we are in a fortunate position with Mr Stott and we have been granted a substantial sum of money, but should we be kicking up more of a fuss about how this money was split by the League? Not just for our sakes, but for other clubs as well. If we were still in the NLN (*shudders*), we would have been the worst off by far. There should at least be some transparency as to how the figures were arrived at, far beyond what we have been told already. Apparently, clubs were asked to answer a questionnaire indicating their lost gate receipts, which seems to have been totally ignored. EDIT - Without getting too fastidious I've added some more sources, given that this originated from the Chester messageboard!
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Post by Barmy Blue Army on Oct 22, 2020 0:48:12 GMT
From the Chester board too: ''Regular large donations to Mr Dowden from the South Hertfordshire Business Club which is based in Borehamwood. It is an unincorporated association. Would be really interesting to know its membership ? www.theyworkforyou.com/regmem/?p=25323 '' I'm not sure whether I agree that this is significant, it's a bit of a leap (though nothing would surprise me with this Government...). But this spectulation is what you get when you don't have transparency, especially when the divide of funds does not appear to match their purpose - as declared in a Government statement.
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Post by timberwolf on Oct 22, 2020 8:16:15 GMT
It’s substantially higher than that. Their average last season was just under 2,200. In attendance terms, they’re one of the biggest clubs outside the Football League (9th in Non-League last year) They’ve got a bit of a cult following, similar to St Pauli in Germany (but on a smaller scale). dulwich hamlet were at one time one of the top amateur clubs in the country appearing in amateur cup finals etc. remember seeing em once myself, and it could be because of their unusual name that they are remembered more than say a club with a more ordinary name like hayes.
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Post by slomasscfc on Oct 22, 2020 12:33:18 GMT
Not read every post in this thread, but I’m a bit fed up of clubs pissing and whining about this decision. They’re getting a handout. How that’s shared has to be decided somehow. I appreciate that’s easy for us to say as the main beneficiaries, but these circumstances are really something no-one could have prepared for; and frankly, even if we work on a ‘lost attendances’ model, us and Notts will still be the main beneficiaries. But I’ve got very little time for the likes of Darlington, Chester and Maidstone sulking because Boreham Wood are getting more money than they are. Like it or not, Boreham Wood are in the division above you. Relatively, their travel costs are higher. Their operational costs are likely higher. Their overnighting costs are higher. Their wages are probably higher. It’s a well-accepted precedent in football that clubs in higher divisions get relatively higher proportions of the pie than those in lower divisions. If this was money split between League 2 and the National League, I’d expect the League 2 clubs to get relatively more than us. I get that there’s a structural unfairness in all of this, but football is structurally unfair. How things are distributed in the long term is a valid question for another day, but not a conversation for the here and now. I also tend to find those shouting the loudest are also those who appear to be the most unsustainable. If Maidstone didn’t want to have concerns about cash flow, perhaps they shouldn’t have decided to stay full time in the sixth tier, in the middle of a f*cking pandemic. I had a quick read of the Chester message board after I read this and they do make some good points. Primarily that the stated purpose of this funding, from the National Lottery, was ''to help cover their (NL clubs) lost gate revenue from the delay to fans being permitted to return, that was originally scheduled for 1 October.'' (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/10-million-lifeline-from-the-national-lottery-for-national-league-football-announced-by-culture-secretary) If that's the case then overheads (travel, wages etc.) shouldn't come in to it. That's up to clubs to manage based on their revenue streams that, at this level, mainly consist of ticket/matchday income. Though I accept that increased streaming revenues may help balance it out a bit. tiny.cc/subsidyNLSomeone's run the numbers (link above) and in fact we come out it worse than Chester, losing nearly £200k than if the money was just split on last season's gate receipts, second only to Notts County (though I'd expect we would have averaged 5,000+ so far in normal times). It also highlights how our league (mainly the smaller Southern clubs...) has received a disproportionate amount of the funding (over £500k), which has come at the expense of the NLN. On the flip side, who is the main beneficiary? Boreham Wood. Who is the MP for BW? Oliver Dowden, Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (which includes The National Lottery)... I'll let you make your own minds whether that's significant... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hertsmere_(UK_Parliament_constituency)) I know we are in a fortunate position with Mr Stott and we have been granted a substantial sum of money, but should we be kicking up more of a fuss about how this money was split by the League? Not just for our sakes, but for other clubs as well. If we were still in the NLN (*shudders*), we would have been the worst off by far. There should at least be some transparency as to how the figures were arrived at, far beyond what we have been told already. Apparently, clubs were asked to answer a questionnaire indicating their lost gate receipts, which seems to have been totally ignored. EDIT - Without getting too fastidious I've added some more sources, given that this originated from the Chester messageboard! Saw a quote before this from Dowden along lines of non league clubs being close to hearts of community and there is one close to him, think it may be in article quoting lottery funding, but if its Boreham wood that makes sense, not like tories to look after their own
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Post by Duncan McOchin on Oct 23, 2020 23:06:01 GMT
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Post by mattyovrio on Oct 24, 2020 6:59:50 GMT
From the Chester board too: ''Regular large donations to Mr Dowden from the South Hertfordshire Business Club which is based in Borehamwood. It is an unincorporated association. Would be really interesting to know its membership ? www.theyworkforyou.com/regmem/?p=25323 '' I'm not sure whether I agree that this is significant, it's a bit of a leap (though nothing would surprise me with this Government...). But this spectulation is what you get when you don't have transparency, especially when the divide of funds does not appear to match their purpose - as declared in a Government statement. I get all this and it does look a bit iffy, but I suspect this has just been poorly thought through like so many other things. i have read the link below also from the Notts County wallah and he has a point. However, as someone who would prefer a level financial playing field for clubs and who has been a critic of the greedy league, it could be argued that the smaller clubs getting a similar amount has helped level the playing field a little in terms of revenue. Streaming of games may also help. With MS’s backing and JG’s management, it won’t make that much difference to us how they have divvyed it up.
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TC
Contributor
Posts: 784
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Post by TC on Oct 24, 2020 7:52:35 GMT
The Notts County CEO makes very valid points. It cannot be right that Boreham Wood are now receiving many times the amount that they would have got with crowds allowed. The poorly supported clubs are funded by their owners which means that they will not have to dig into ther pockets so deep, or if they do, they can spend the money on better players if they wish. Dowden must personally know the BW owner and between them, they must be enjoying a big smirk.
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Post by timberwolf on Oct 24, 2020 8:05:13 GMT
The Notts County CEO makes very valid points. It cannot be right that Boreham Wood are now receiving many times the amount that they would have got with crowds allowed. The poorly supported clubs are funded by their owners which means that they will not have to dig into ther pockets so deep, or if they do, they can spend the money on better players if they wish. Dowden must personally know the BW owner and between them, they must be enjoying a big smirk. yes, boreham wood sticks out like a sore thumb in our league. without looking at all the figures i imagine the majority of others rely on gates say between 1,250 and 2,250 averages. BW can compete well on low gates in normal times so they do not need as big a handout. i imagine the vast majority of our opponents base their finances on gate receipts with a smaller help from their owners.
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Post by desmond on Oct 24, 2020 11:34:34 GMT
The Notts County CEO makes very valid points. It cannot be right that Boreham Wood are now receiving many times the amount that they would have got with crowds allowed. The poorly supported clubs are funded by their owners which means that they will not have to dig into ther pockets so deep, or if they do, they can spend the money on better players if they wish. Dowden must personally know the BW owner and between them, they must be enjoying a big smirk. Do we know who decided on the sharing of the pot ? Was it the government or was it the league itself ?
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TC
Contributor
Posts: 784
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Post by TC on Oct 24, 2020 13:19:47 GMT
I assume it was agreed after negotiation.
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Post by badgersc on Oct 25, 2020 20:33:38 GMT
I assume it was agreed after negotiation. I find it very unlikely that the govt spwent any time whatsoever negotiating the split of funds between teams in the National League.
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