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Post by wnm on Dec 23, 2020 0:46:18 GMT
You’d rather keep two players that haven’t completed a season with us over one of our all time great players, turned most successful ever manager? Read that again. You are no true fan of the club if you believe what you’re saying. Another way of looking at this: players who would never even consider coming to this football club before some rich bloke starting flashing his cash, or a man whose association with who and what we are goes back 30 years, and has bailed us out of trouble time and time again? That’s not to say Jim Gannon is entirely selfless. He will want to do well out of it like any of the rest of us do in our careers. Neither is it to say he’s perfect and doesn’t make mistakes, because he does. But there’s something more visceral, intangible about people like Gannon, Bergara, Flynn. You could probably count on one hand the characters that mean so much to so many in more than a century of history. Everything (or at least almost everything) that Stott and his people have done since they came in here suggests to me that they get us - or if they don’t, they’ve made a real effort to get to know us, as a fanbase and as a culture. That to me suggests they’ve got people around them who are tapped into how County fans think, and what we want. So they’ll know the regard in which JG is held, and they’ll know how much of a backlash they’d face if they try to start tinkering with it. Not because he’s more important than the club, or there aren’t other managers about there, but because of it being part of what County are. They’ll stay on the right path as long as they stay tapped into that sentiment. As soon as they stray, it’ll go wrong. All they need to do to know that is have a chat with Brendan Elwood, Peter Snape, Spencer Fearn. We don’t ask a lot here, but we do ask that they get what we are about. For what it’s worth, I think this is all just someone wanting to stir the pot for a bit of attention. But the point stands. I totally get what you’re saying BW but this club isn’t run by the fans - we tried that and it most certainly didn’t work. Jim has done a tremendous job but we hit the ceiling last season in terms of what he could do with the limited budget we had and a return to the FL didn’t feel on the cards without a takeover. Jim wanted investment as you could tell he was getting a little frustrated but in some senses the takeover me got was a almost too good and the level of investment and additional staff and roles alongside Jim isn’t a great mesh on paper and we’re starting to see that unravel. It’s not a case of picking Rooney or Hogan or CJ ahead Jim, of course Jim wins out with the fans after all he’s done but this cycle would just continue with signing after signing unless Jim had free reign over recruitment. As I said in the other thread if I was the millionaire owner then I would have let Jim make all the signings and build his own team but it seems it’s more of a halfway house and that’s the owners choice not ours even if we don’t agree with it. I don’t like this Stott needs to keep us onside by keeping Jim narrative that is building. Jim’s the only manager in my time supporting County who’s been successful, I love hearing him talk about football, I love how generous he is with his time for the County family and away from the football environment he’s an absolute gent but ultimately If the way the club is changing and his management of the first team is a poor fit and he’s too stubborn to adapt then we will need to find a more suitable alternative as much as it saddens me and thousands of others.
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Post by badgersc on Dec 23, 2020 0:47:04 GMT
I wouldn't be arsed about several of the signings but I think Rooney is clearly the difference for us. I like Kitching too, Hogan is ok and Bennett great. Rest I'm not that fussed, Hinchcliffe I was but he's struggling and you can tell. As I have said, blame me and accuse me all you want. Its hardly trolling if I am sat trying to be polite. Admin did ban me and decided against. I will let you make of that what you will. You were allowed to stay as you said you had more to say, name your source or there is little point in this.... It’s one thing to pass on wild news of transfer requests and such like. But quite another to make accusations of bullying of football and non football staff. Not right IMO.
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left
Frequenter
Posts: 118
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Post by left on Dec 23, 2020 0:49:46 GMT
You were allowed to stay as you said you had more to say, name your source or there is little point in this.... It’s one thing to pass on wild news of transfer requests and such like. But quite another to make accusations of bullying of football and non football staff. Not right IMO. I welcome any legal action if I have made it up.
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Post by BWScarf on Dec 23, 2020 0:49:47 GMT
Another way of looking at this: players who would never even consider coming to this football club before some rich bloke starting flashing his cash, or a man whose association with who and what we are goes back 30 years, and has bailed us out of trouble time and time again? That’s not to say Jim Gannon is entirely selfless. He will want to do well out of it like any of the rest of us do in our careers. Neither is it to say he’s perfect and doesn’t make mistakes, because he does. But there’s something more visceral, intangible about people like Gannon, Bergara, Flynn. You could probably count on one hand the characters that mean so much to so many in more than a century of history. Everything (or at least almost everything) that Stott and his people have done since they came in here suggests to me that they get us - or if they don’t, they’ve made a real effort to get to know us, as a fanbase and as a culture. That to me suggests they’ve got people around them who are tapped into how County fans think, and what we want. So they’ll know the regard in which JG is held, and they’ll know how much of a backlash they’d face if they try to start tinkering with it. Not because he’s more important than the club, or there aren’t other managers about there, but because of it being part of what County are. They’ll stay on the right path as long as they stay tapped into that sentiment. As soon as they stray, it’ll go wrong. All they need to do to know that is have a chat with Brendan Elwood, Peter Snape, Spencer Fearn. We don’t ask a lot here, but we do ask that they get what we are about. For what it’s worth, I think this is all just someone wanting to stir the pot for a bit of attention. But the point stands. I totally get what you’re saying BW but this club isn’t run by the fans - we tried that and it most certainly didn’t work. Jim has done a tremendous job but we hit the ceiling last season in terms of what he could do with the limited budget we had and a return to the FL didn’t feel on the cards without a takeover. Jim wanted investment as you could tell he was getting a little frustrated but in some senses the takeover me got was a almost too good and the level of investment and additional staff and roles alongside Jim isn’t a great mesh on paper and we’re starting to see that unravel. It’s not a case of picking Rooney or Hogan or CJ ahead Jim, of course Jim wins out with the fans after all he’s done but this cycle would just continue with signing after signing unless Jim had free reign over recruitment. As I said in the other thread if I was the millionaire owner then I would have let Jim make all the signings and build his own team but it seems it’s more of a halfway house and that’s the owners choice not ours even if we don’t agree with it. I don’t like this Stott needs to keep us onside by keeping Jim narrative that is building. Jim’s the only manager in my time supporting County who’s been successful, I love hearing him talk about football, I love how generous he is with his time for the County family and away from the football environment he’s an absolute gent but ultimately If the way the club is changing and his management of the first team is a poor fit and he’s too stubborn to adapt then we will need to find a more suitable alternative as much as it saddens me and thousands of others. It would leave me very angry and wondering whether ‘the journey’ is worth it. I’ll say no more, because what’s the point. But either people get it or they don’t. And if they don’t, they have no business being here.
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Post by wnm on Dec 23, 2020 0:52:03 GMT
We’re all sick of non league? Since he’s come back, Jim has got us up with a part time squad and nearly got us in to the play offs with the same part time squad. He’s now got some investment don’t you think he deserves his fair chance? (That’s without mentioning the league 1 and 2 days, and his playing career). To say you’d rather keep Hogan and Rooney is disrespectful and suggests you have an agenda against him. He’s getting his fair chance. He’s seemingly blowing it because he won’t/can’t adapt.
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Post by wnm on Dec 23, 2020 0:54:52 GMT
I totally get what you’re saying BW but this club isn’t run by the fans - we tried that and it most certainly didn’t work. Jim has done a tremendous job but we hit the ceiling last season in terms of what he could do with the limited budget we had and a return to the FL didn’t feel on the cards without a takeover. Jim wanted investment as you could tell he was getting a little frustrated but in some senses the takeover me got was a almost too good and the level of investment and additional staff and roles alongside Jim isn’t a great mesh on paper and we’re starting to see that unravel. It’s not a case of picking Rooney or Hogan or CJ ahead Jim, of course Jim wins out with the fans after all he’s done but this cycle would just continue with signing after signing unless Jim had free reign over recruitment. As I said in the other thread if I was the millionaire owner then I would have let Jim make all the signings and build his own team but it seems it’s more of a halfway house and that’s the owners choice not ours even if we don’t agree with it. I don’t like this Stott needs to keep us onside by keeping Jim narrative that is building. Jim’s the only manager in my time supporting County who’s been successful, I love hearing him talk about football, I love how generous he is with his time for the County family and away from the football environment he’s an absolute gent but ultimately If the way the club is changing and his management of the first team is a poor fit and he’s too stubborn to adapt then we will need to find a more suitable alternative as much as it saddens me and thousands of others. It would leave me very angry and wondering whether ‘the journey’ is worth it. I’ll say no more, because what’s the point. But either people get it or they don’t. And if they don’t, they have no business being here. So you’d rather stay in non league forever and finish mid table with a limited budget under Jim than progress?
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Post by scfc29 on Dec 23, 2020 0:56:37 GMT
We’re all sick of non league? Since he’s come back, Jim has got us up with a part time squad and nearly got us in to the play offs with the same part time squad. He’s now got some investment don’t you think he deserves his fair chance? (That’s without mentioning the league 1 and 2 days, and his playing career). To say you’d rather keep Hogan and Rooney is disrespectful and suggests you have an agenda against him. He’s getting his fair chance. He’s seemingly blowing it because he won’t/can’t adapt. I posted earlier we’ve won 10, drawn and lost 4 this season, hardly blowing it. Giving Jim any less than this season would not be a fair chance and as long as we are in the play offs that would mean he deserves next season too in my opinion. This is a manager that’s never failed to improve his league position with us each season by the way.
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Post by BWScarf on Dec 23, 2020 0:58:12 GMT
It would leave me very angry and wondering whether ‘the journey’ is worth it. I’ll say no more, because what’s the point. But either people get it or they don’t. And if they don’t, they have no business being here. So you’d rather stay in non league forever and finish mid table with a limited budget under Jim than progress? Show me evidence of where we have *ever* stayed still under Gannon. You can’t, because we haven’t. Let’s just get this right. We’ve had two poor results in the last couple of games. Before that we’d won five on the spin away from home. How about just a little bit of perspective? Although to answer your question: we all crave success. But the way we go about it matters more than the success itself. If that wasn’t true, we wouldn’t be County fans.
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Post by Philcounty on Dec 23, 2020 0:58:15 GMT
I mean you can sit here and say I am making it up, I'm not really fussed, I don't really get anything out of it and I am sad that his time will come to an end like this but he brings it on himself, everywhere he goes its the same sorry tale. I'm afraid I'd rather keep our best defender, top goalscorer than at present a very average manager at this level. As picked up already, three have handed in transfer requests tonight, the man is a walking destruction ball and has lost the dressing room. It's time for one of the several names in the fray, one who is already at an advanced stage, has experience of getting out of this decision as well as experience managing in the Championship. Hogan isn't our best defender. Rooney deserved the criticism he got. In most lines of work you'd be fired if the "customers" heard you talking like that. Palmer deserved more leniency because he went for a fair ball and (may have) got it wrong. He had to deal with that ball and may have been a little clumsy, but certainly wasn't reckless. If there is any truth in what you say it's opportunistic. No player can rightfully feel aggrieved at any criticism aimed at them after that performance. Anyone who's handed in a transfer request is too weak to be here and should be straight out of the club at the soonest opportunity. I don't care who it is. We've had a good start to a heavily disrupted season in unprecedented circumstances. We're within reach of the top 3 with our games in hand and it would be foolish and a massive underestimate of the esteem that Jim is held in to make a change now. I was told,when the takeover first went through, by someone unrelated to the club who knows Stott professionally that he wanted to bring in his own manager. I hoped that he got us as a fanbase and had realised that Jim is such a large part of our identity. Time will tell if he is as shrewd as I hope he is.
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Post by wnm on Dec 23, 2020 1:04:28 GMT
He’s getting his fair chance. He’s seemingly blowing it because he won’t/can’t adapt. I posted earlier we’ve won 10, drawn and lost 4 this season, hardly blowing it. Giving Jim any less than this season would not be a fair chance and as long as we are in the play offs that would mean he deserves next season too in my opinion. This is a manager that’s never failed to improve his league position with us each season by the way. We’ve got lucky a few times in recent weeks. It’s not so much the results that worry me it’s the performances and the fact he’s seemingly lost the dressing room so quickly. I could tell it wasn’t a happy camp from his interview ahead of Saturday’s game where he blamed the players while abstaining himself from blame. If I was player watching that I’d have been fuming. You can’t recover from losing the dressing room and if he’s not done that already he’s well on his way.
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Post by desmond on Dec 23, 2020 1:14:11 GMT
If we are not careful the whole situation will become toxic. I genuinely hope that things improve and that JG remain in charge and the club climb the table preferably mainly with the current squad which on paper is definitely good enough. Though some will argue against it I think it’s been obvious across many games that we haven’t yet gelled and the manager has to take a share of that responsibility as do the players. We are now seeing two camps, one of which is partly driven by people who always seem to have been anti Gannon (though not everyone is in that group) and another camp who seem equally happy to rubbish players that almost everyone was chomping at the bit to see in action when they signed in the summer (and some in this group are equall unwilling to see any wrong in JGs tactics/style). He’s not become a bad manager overnight and the players have not become bad players overnight but between them they need to show improvement pretty quickly. As for the OPs comment that JG has been rude to staff, frankly I find that the most ridiculous of all the comments as respect to staff has always been a big thing in his book. On the other hand I do think the barbed comment about Palmer being honest which indirectly suggested Rooney isn’t was something best left unsaid and was an unnecessary step back to the Jim of old. Here’s hoping for a quiet few days and 3 points v Alty !
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Post by wnm on Dec 23, 2020 1:17:57 GMT
So you’d rather stay in non league forever and finish mid table with a limited budget under Jim than progress? Show me evidence of where we have *ever* stayed still under Gannon. You can’t, because we haven’t. Let’s just get this right. We’ve had two poor results in the last couple of games. Before that we’d won five on the spin away from home. How about just a little bit of perspective? Although to answer your question: we all crave success. But the way we go about it matters more than the success itself. If that wasn’t true, we wouldn’t be County fans. I mean the season he got sacked second time around is an example - he was screwed over by the board undoubtedly as they wouldn’t let him rectify his mistakes but that was a season where we would have avoided relegation had he stayed but still would have gone backwards. I agree with you to a degree. We seem to be copying Salford’s method and I don’t think that’s the best way to go about it though I think it will be successful nevertheless. If it was purely based on results then of course it would ridiculous to make a change but it’s more about poor performances, losing the dressing room and on a bigger scale colliding philosophies between ownership and the manager.
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Post by wnm on Dec 23, 2020 1:19:54 GMT
If we are not careful the whole situation will become toxic. I genuinely hope that things improve and that JG remain in charge and the club climb the table preferably mainly with the current squad which on paper is definitely good enough. Though some will argue against it I think it’s been obvious across many games that we haven’t yet gelled and the manager has to take a share of that responsibility as do the players. We are now seeing two camps, one of which is partly driven by people who always seem to have been anti Gannon (though not everyone is in that group) and another camp who seem equally happy to rubbish players that almost everyone was chomping at the bit to see in action when they signed in the summer (and some in this group are equall unwilling to see any wrong in JGs tactics/style). He’s not become a bad manager overnight and the players have not become bad players overnight but between them they need to show improvement pretty quickly. As for the OPs comment that JG has been rude to staff, frankly I find that the most ridiculous of all the comments as respect to staff has always been a big thing in his book. On the other hand I do think the barbed comment about Palmer being honest which indirectly suggested Rooney isn’t was something best left unsaid and was an unnecessary step back to the Jim of old. Here’s hoping for a quiet few days and 3 points v Alty ! Saw a bit of the Jim of old in his interview last week and was worried we were heading towards trouble
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Post by desmond on Dec 23, 2020 1:21:38 GMT
You were allowed to stay as you said you had more to say, name your source or there is little point in this.... It’s one thing to pass on wild news of transfer requests and such like. But quite another to make accusations of bullying of football and non football staff. Not right IMO. What he’s said hasn’t been helpful and is veryikely IMO to be wrong, however is it really much different than those claiming players weren’t signed by Jim yet they aren’t challenged to name their source ?
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Post by Philcounty on Dec 23, 2020 1:22:52 GMT
Is anyone actually going to try and defend Rooney here?
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