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Post by tgttiw on Oct 23, 2021 11:20:11 GMT
So that's the original Bury FC right? I know there was a massive split in the fanbase when Bury AFC were formed as some didn't support it. Doubt they'll come together as one now, which is a shame. Surely the one who has gigg will likely succeed. Surely afc guys will shut up shop next year as it won't be sustainable, and most of the fans will want to go to matches at gigg. Something happened similar at Scarborough where there was 2 football clubs but the bigger one survived and everyone simply accepted that was the old club in new form. In a nutshell....Scarborough Athletic formed 5 days after the old club were liquidated. The vast majority of the fans followed it, and they played in Brid. Parts of the youth setup from the old club survived because they were a separate legal entity which didn't even use the branding of the old club. Several high-profile people latched o to them and tried to promote them as being some sort of 'true spirit' of the old club. They formed Scarborough Town who joined the Teesside League a season after Athletic joined the Northern Counties East League. Athletic got crowds of c. 500 even 20 miles away and prospered because the fans saw them as the real continuity club - I would see the fans' club at Bury the same way. Town played on a school playing field in front of optimistically-reported crowds of 100ish. They tried to make a go of it but refusal of permission for floodlights plus likely huge ground improvement costs meant they gave up after 5ish years The crucial difference is that at Scarborough, NOBODY could play at the Athletic Ground. If STFC had got the right to play there, who knows how it would have turned out
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Bury
Oct 23, 2021 11:20:58 GMT
via mobile
Post by tgttiw on Oct 23, 2021 11:20:58 GMT
Surely the one who has gigg will likely succeed. Surely afc guys will shut up shop next year as it won't be sustainable, and most of the fans will want to go to matches at gigg. Something happened similar at Scarborough where there was 2 football clubs but the bigger one survived and everyone simply accepted that was the old club in new form. In a nutshell....Scarborough Athletic formed 5 days after the old club were liquidated. The vast majority of the fans followed it, and they played in Brid. Parts of the youth setup from the old club survived because they were a separate legal entity which didn't even use the branding of the old club. Several high-profile people latched o to them and tried to promote them as being some sort of 'true spirit' of the old club. They formed Scarborough Town who joined the Teesside League a season after Athletic joined the Northern Counties East League. Athletic got crowds of c. 500 even 20 miles away and prospered because the fans saw them as the real continuity club - I would see the fans' club at Bury the same way. Town played on a school playing field in front of optimistically-reported crowds of 100ish. They tried to make a go of it but refusal of permission for floodlights plus likely huge ground improvement costs meant they gave up after 5ish years The crucial difference is that at Scarborough, NOBODY could play at the Athletic Ground. If STFC had got the right to play there, who knows how it would have turned out A better example is Hinckley. After H. Utd went bust, they split into Hinckley AFC and Leicester Road FC. Hinckley AFC are the fans'club and currently play at (I think) Heather St Johns. Their crowds are healthy and they're doing ok. However LRFC got use of the old ground and while their crowds aren't as big, they're also surviving comfortably and possibly taking fans from the other team. While there are two teams in Hinckley, neither will do well.
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Bury
Oct 23, 2021 12:27:53 GMT
Post by HTC on Oct 23, 2021 12:27:53 GMT
The one I know best is Enfield (my old team before the club died / I moved to Stockport) - conference winners a couple of times in the 80s and historic rival of Barnet. North London equivalent of Alty essentially I guess, albeit with slightly lower crowds.
Corrupt chairman separated club and ground in the mid 90s, then colluded with the council to sell the ground for houses, leave the club groundless and playing 15 miles away.
Fans set up Enfield Town, started at the very bottom, and took pretty much all the fans with them. Gradually moved back up the leagues, and now generally at the upper end of the Ishtmian (one below NLS) in front of 400ish. All happened after I’d left Enfield, so I just didn’t really take up following the new club.
Original Enfield club hung around for another few years, before folding. The rump of fans who stayed with the old club then formed Enfield 1893, and they now get around 50 fans at Stockport Town type level, but too many egos / bad feeling for them to merge back together again.
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Bury
Oct 23, 2021 14:45:39 GMT
Post by mattyovrio on Oct 23, 2021 14:45:39 GMT
So that's the original Bury FC right? I know there was a massive split in the fanbase when Bury AFC were formed as some didn't support it. Doubt they'll come together as one now, which is a shame. Surely the one who has gigg will likely succeed. Surely afc guys will shut up shop next year as it won't be sustainable, and most of the fans will want to go to matches at gigg. Something happened similar at Scarborough where there was 2 football clubs but the bigger one survived and everyone simply accepted that was the old club in new form. They should merge.
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Bury
Oct 24, 2021 11:08:29 GMT
Post by timberwolf on Oct 24, 2021 11:08:29 GMT
A better example is Hinckley. After H. Utd went bust, they split into Hinckley AFC and Leicester Road FC. Hinckley AFC are the fans'club and currently play at (I think) Heather St Johns. Their crowds are healthy and they're doing ok. However LRFC got use of the old ground and while their crowds aren't as big, they're also surviving comfortably and possibly taking fans from the other team. While there are two teams in Hinckley, neither will do well. There needs to be a situation there in forgetting the past and look to the future. A dagenham and redbridge situation could be ideal if the two hinckley teams joined up with nearby nuneaton with a decent ground. Not everone wants to watch leicester or coventry in the same way as we do not watch the manc clubs. Hinckley and Nuneaton AFC could be a force in the future with a bit of money behind it. Unlike many areas there is an interest in football in both towns.
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Bury
Oct 24, 2021 23:58:09 GMT
via mobile
Post by BWScarf on Oct 24, 2021 23:58:09 GMT
So that's the original Bury FC right? I know there was a massive split in the fanbase when Bury AFC were formed as some didn't support it. Doubt they'll come together as one now, which is a shame. Agreed - the only place where two clubs seem to have thrived post split is Wimbledon / MK which was a very different situation for so many reasons. The Northwich / Enfield experience where two clubs co exist, with the better one being a couple of levels below the level of the old club seems more common. If that model is followed here, stands well for the fan run Bury establishing themselves around NLN level in the medium term with reasonable crowds, with ‘old’ Bury hanging around the NWCL in front of a relative handful. Similar has happened at Scarborough. The old club peaked in the Football League, 12 years there at the turn of the century. Scarborough Athletic, its successor club, is in the Northern Premier League, and Scarborough Town folded not too many years after starting.
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Post by tgttiw on Oct 25, 2021 4:36:47 GMT
Agreed - the only place where two clubs seem to have thrived post split is Wimbledon / MK which was a very different situation for so many reasons. The Northwich / Enfield experience where two clubs co exist, with the better one being a couple of levels below the level of the old club seems more common. If that model is followed here, stands well for the fan run Bury establishing themselves around NLN level in the medium term with reasonable crowds, with ‘old’ Bury hanging around the NWCL in front of a relative handful. Similar has happened at Scarborough. The old club peaked in the Football League, 12 years there at the turn of the century. Scarborough Athletic, its successor club, is in the Northern Premier League, and Scarborough Town folded not too many years after starting. I think you've marsdened yourself there have a read of the thread!
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Post by Duncan McOchin on Oct 23, 2022 14:05:11 GMT
If anyone's fussed about Bury (again), there are votes currently taking place amongst the two entities that own each of Bury FC (own Gigg Lane, no active team) and Bury AFC (active team, no owned ground) to merge the two sides, voting due to close on the 26th. Both votes need a supermajority (67%) to pass, which leads to the absurd possibility that just 17% of the overall total could scupper things for everyone.
So there could finally be an end to this whole daft saga... but then again, maybe not.
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Bury
Oct 23, 2022 14:51:19 GMT
via mobile
Nik likes this
Post by Radcliffe Hatter on Oct 23, 2022 14:51:19 GMT
If anyone's fussed about Bury (again), there are votes currently taking place amongst the two entities that own each of Bury FC (own Gigg Lane, no active team) and Bury AFC (active team, no owned ground) to merge the two sides, voting due to close on the 26th. Both votes need a supermajority (67%) to pass, which leads to the absurd possibility that just 17% of the overall total could scupper things for everyone. So there could finally be an end to this whole daft saga... but then again, maybe not. I know a few Bury fans and not one of them can give me a decent answer about why there is so much animosity between the two factions. I've just been told that it's a few people's egos that are driving it all. There's even some berk who has got a van emblazoned with "NO TO THE MERGER" who drives around Bury. It's completely bizarre.
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fb
Contributor
Posts: 713
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Bury
Oct 23, 2022 14:57:16 GMT
Post by fb on Oct 23, 2022 14:57:16 GMT
If anyone's fussed about Bury (again), there are votes currently taking place amongst the two entities that own each of Bury FC (own Gigg Lane, no active team) and Bury AFC (active team, no owned ground) to merge the two sides, voting due to close on the 26th. Both votes need a supermajority (67%) to pass, which leads to the absurd possibility that just 17% of the overall total could scupper things for everyone. So there could finally be an end to this whole daft saga... but then again, maybe not. I know a few Bury fans and not one of them can give me a decent answer about why there is so much animosity between the two factions. I've just been told that it's a few people's egos that are driving it all. There's even some berk who has got a van emblazoned with "NO TO THE MERGER" who drives around Bury. It's completely bizarre. It is human nature, as a species we are a bunch of argumentative barstewards who are not truly happy unless we are having a ruck.
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Bury
Oct 23, 2022 15:50:28 GMT
Post by The Real Exile on Oct 23, 2022 15:50:28 GMT
I miss Bury away, hope they sort themselves out.
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Bury
Oct 23, 2022 16:17:41 GMT
via mobile
Post by Nik on Oct 23, 2022 16:17:41 GMT
If anyone's fussed about Bury (again), there are votes currently taking place amongst the two entities that own each of Bury FC (own Gigg Lane, no active team) and Bury AFC (active team, no owned ground) to merge the two sides, voting due to close on the 26th. Both votes need a supermajority (67%) to pass, which leads to the absurd possibility that just 17% of the overall total could scupper things for everyone. So there could finally be an end to this whole daft saga... but then again, maybe not. I know a few Bury fans and not one of them can give me a decent answer about why there is so much animosity between the two factions. I've just been told that it's a few people's egos that are driving it all. There's even some berk who has got a van emblazoned with "NO TO THE MERGER" who drives around Bury. It's completely bizarre. I wondered that myself and haven't been able to find any kind of justifiable argument from either side.
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Bury
Oct 28, 2022 20:28:43 GMT
Post by kerryman on Oct 28, 2022 20:28:43 GMT
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Post by desmond on Oct 28, 2022 20:35:00 GMT
The BURYFCSS website when talking about the resolution says they now have a clear direction, implying that they will not now merge with AFC, given that 62% voted in favour of the motion to merge I’m not sure how that really transpires to be a clear direction to stay separate. All of above assumes I’ve read the statement correctly.
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Post by bristolhatter on Oct 28, 2022 21:27:28 GMT
The BURYFCSS website when talking about the resolution says they now have a clear direction, implying that they will not now merge with AFC, given that 62% voted in favour of the motion to merge I’m not sure how that really transpires to be a clear direction to stay separate. All of above assumes I’ve read the statement correctly. They didn't know what they were voting for We've been through a lot of sh!t but what's happened to Bury has always been my biggest fear, if we'd had have to reform, we'd probably have the same issue with a fractured fan base not able to agree the best way forward. If they continue in different directions, their journey back will be very long (regardless of which of the Burys becomes the dominant club)
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