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Post by bigmartin on Aug 28, 2024 1:25:49 GMT
The pay awards are not above inflation when we take into account where they were when the tories came into power they're still lagging behind, I'd also like to see inheritance tax introduced on everything above the £12,500 threshold, I find it odd that people see it as a right to have unearned income protected in a way that earned income isn't. I'm sure we have had this chat before but, I will have already paid tax on my wages used to pay for my pile of bricks, on top of stamp duty etc why should it be taxed again when I peck it? Because inanimate things such as houses don't pay tax, people do. Based on certain parameters one of which is wealth acquisition. If people want to say "I paid tax on THAT property therefore my kids should get a tax break" then I reserve the right to say "I've paid tax into the NHS all my life and never used it, nor have I ever benefited from any welfare payments...therefore I want some back to pass some of that tax to MY kids to help them out. Seems pretty equitable in my eyes (only it isn't of course).
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Mozzer
Contributor
Posts: 1,306
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Post by Mozzer on Aug 28, 2024 6:18:53 GMT
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Post by vicar on Aug 28, 2024 6:34:22 GMT
It shows we're not doing it right and I'm convinced we're going to see a much fairer system introduced, Labour are going to come under severe attack but if they can hold their nerve and ride out the unpopularity we'll see the benefits, I just worry that they won't get a 2nd term to see it through, they need to start showing benefits by year 3 and social investments take years to bear fruit.
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tvor
Frequenter
Posts: 185
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Post by tvor on Aug 28, 2024 6:36:05 GMT
This 22 million pounds black hole that Labour have conveniently created/found. Here's a suggestion, scrap HS2 which for 99% plus of the UK population is irrelevant to them. Use the money left over to sort a legal way for Starmer to send all the illegal arrivals back as they are also costing us billions each year whilst creating nothing for the economy. He moaned about it when he was in opposition, now is his chance to actually do something about it. This is one of the biggest challenges that we as a Country face. Has he visited Dover yet to see for himself what it's like down there? If not, why not? I'm off out to take in some fresh air up in Lyme Park before they put a tax on that
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Post by vicar on Aug 28, 2024 6:42:56 GMT
This 22 million pounds black hole that Labour have conveniently created/found. Here's a suggestion, scrap HS2 which for 99% plus of the UK population is irrelevant to them. Use the money left over to sort a legal way for Starmer to send all the illegal arrivals back as they are also costing us billions each year whilst creating nothing for the economy. He moaned about it when he was in opposition, now is his chance to actually do something about it. This is one of the biggest challenges that we as a Country face. Has he visited Dover yet to see for himself what it's like down there? If not, why not? I'm off out to take in some fresh air up in Lyme Park before they put a tax on that Where do I start with this? There's nothing convenient about inherting spending plans that can't be paid for with current levels of taxation, there's your black hole, HS2 was pretty much scrapped a while ago, we won't know who is illegal until they've been processed and I just don't understand your obsession with him visiting Dover, is it the brexit queues you want him to see?
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Post by timberwolf on Aug 28, 2024 7:31:34 GMT
I'm sure we have had this chat before but, I will have already paid tax on my wages used to pay for my pile of bricks, on top of stamp duty etc why should it be taxed again when I peck it? Same here but my kids won't have paid anything on their unearned windfall, my last house trebled in value and I didn't pay any tax on that, my current house in Stockport is increasing in value and I'm not paying any tax on that unearned wealth either. Edit: Less fortunate people who work and pay taxes all their lives and live in council homes don't get to leave anything but are taxed at the same rate as everyone else. The house might have trebled in value but you did not treble it but the market did. People buy property as they themselves think its the best way to put a roof over their heads. Doubt when anyone first gets married a buy their first house they are thinking of leaving it to their kids who have not even been born yet. A family home thats been left is hardly unearned wealth but something thats increased in value over the years but has only been maintained in many cases but never improved.
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Post by herbiedumplings on Aug 28, 2024 7:35:03 GMT
That - and paying Capital Gains - are what define you as ‘middle class’ according to the Mail and the Telegraph. In the South East where homeowners have made a pile through the property price bubble, perhaps. Not that the right-wing press is Home Counties centric, or anything…
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Post by timberwolf on Aug 28, 2024 7:41:03 GMT
It didn't take them long to go back on their promises :-( The government's claims of a £22bn "black hole" left by the Tories have been questioned following substantial pay awards to unions - including to both junior doctors and train drivers. From Sky News ..... Laura Trott, the Conservatives' shadow chief secretary to the Treasury, said: "The government are no longer promising to protect working people from their incoming tax raid because just like pensioners, working families are next in line for Labour's tax hikes. "After promising over 50 times in the election not to raise taxes on working people Labour are now rolling the pitch to break even more promises. "The chancellor is entitled to raise taxes to pay for her expensive choices and above inflation pay rises demanded by her union paymasters, but she should have had the courage to be honest from the start. "This a betrayal of people's trust and we will hold them to account for their actions." Mention income tax rises so many people go into meltdown. The basic rate is far lower than it was 50 year ago and i never bothered then about paying it. If people want services and not losing them the government needs to find the money to pay black hole or not. Biggest gripe is when they have the money its what is done with it that counts. A case of keeping your powder dry until millions are spent on where the majority of it do not want to see it go. Remember it wasn,t the labour party who have caused pensioners and the lower paid into a position where they now pay income tax when they have never paid it before by not increasing the amount they can earn before tax is due.
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Post by vicar on Aug 28, 2024 7:45:14 GMT
Same here but my kids won't have paid anything on their unearned windfall, my last house trebled in value and I didn't pay any tax on that, my current house in Stockport is increasing in value and I'm not paying any tax on that unearned wealth either. Edit: Less fortunate people who work and pay taxes all their lives and live in council homes don't get to leave anything but are taxed at the same rate as everyone else. The house might have trebled in value but you did not treble it but the market did. People buy property as they themselves think its the best way to put a roof over their heads. Doubt when anyone first gets married a buy their first house they are thinking of leaving it to their kids who have not even been born yet. A family home thats been left is hardly unearned wealth but something thats increased in value over the years but has only been maintained in many cases but never improved. I did actually build an extension but the point is that a lot of kids brought up with all the advantages that come with having wealthy parents get a leg up in life, they then get another boost when their parents, grandparents or often when aunts or uncles pass away, kids brought up in rented homes get none of this yet still pay the same rate of tax to protect the inheritance of the luckier ones.
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Post by timberwolf on Aug 28, 2024 7:46:15 GMT
That - and paying Capital Gains - are what define you as ‘middle class’ according to the Mail and the Telegraph. In the South East where homeowners have made a pile through the property price bubble, perhaps. Not that the right-wing press is Home Counties centric, or anything… Again they have made this pile by shear accident and not some devious plan of there own. If you live in the SE yes the value of your property has gone sky high but so will there new one purchased unless they move out of the region.
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Post by timberwolf on Aug 28, 2024 7:53:18 GMT
The house might have trebled in value but you did not treble it but the market did. People buy property as they themselves think its the best way to put a roof over their heads. Doubt when anyone first gets married a buy their first house they are thinking of leaving it to their kids who have not even been born yet. A family home thats been left is hardly unearned wealth but something thats increased in value over the years but has only been maintained in many cases but never improved. I did actually build an extension but the point is that a lot of kids brought up with all the advantages that come with having wealthy parents get a leg up in life, they then get another boost when their parents, grandparents or often when aunts or uncles pass away, kids brought up in rented homes get none of this yet still pay the same rate of tax to protect the inheritance of the luckier ones. Not talking about those living in the top end properties who are more likely to be left a good deal of cash never mind property. Its the average person in the average middle of the road down to the cheaper end i,m on about. All property prices have gone up even doer uppers. Taxing on homes after death makes home ownership even less of an attraction, but being a renter at least its a problem my lad will never have.
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Post by ancienthatter on Aug 28, 2024 8:08:15 GMT
The whole system is broken. Inheritance tax is an easy target.. and so it should be with a combined allowance of £650,000. But the biggest problem is the rates of tax are too low. 20% isn’t sustainable in the 2020s. Neither is it acceptable that people earning over £12,500 start paying tax.. that’s poverty wages. Personal allowance needs lifting significantly to nearer £20k but the basic rate up to 22 or 23%, perhaps even 25%. 40% should go to 45%. And while we’re at it.. scrap student loan debt. It’s a sneaky way of increasing effective tax rates before you get anywhere near the 40% rate… and it’s anti family. It would be refreshing to hear a public debate about how all the various tax options would impact our tax bill and what extra funds could be raised for Services. None of us know enough about the possible choices so we’re never in a position to judge properly.
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Post by suedehead on Aug 28, 2024 8:20:11 GMT
I did actually build an extension but the point is that a lot of kids brought up with all the advantages that come with having wealthy parents get a leg up in life, they then get another boost when their parents, grandparents or often when aunts or uncles pass away, kids brought up in rented homes get none of this yet still pay the same rate of tax to protect the inheritance of the luckier ones. Not talking about those living in the top end properties who are more likely to be left a good deal of cash never mind property. Its the average person in the average middle of the road down to the cheaper end i,m on about. All property prices have gone up even doer uppers. Taxing on homes after death makes home ownership even less of an attraction, but being a renter at least its a problem my lad will never have. The average middle of the road house could still be worth £250k-£300k, more depending on where you live. In Sale, where I am, you'd be lucky to get a two bed terrace for £300k. That kind of money doesn't get you anything particularly special. But it's still a huge amount of money that could be inherited. I'm with vicar on this.
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Post by suedehead on Aug 28, 2024 8:22:47 GMT
This 22 million pounds black hole that Labour have conveniently created/found. Here's a suggestion, scrap HS2 which for 99% plus of the UK population is irrelevant to them. Use the money left over to sort a legal way for Starmer to send all the illegal arrivals back as they are also costing us billions each year whilst creating nothing for the economy. He moaned about it when he was in opposition, now is his chance to actually do something about it. This is one of the biggest challenges that we as a Country face. Has he visited Dover yet to see for himself what it's like down there? If not, why not? I'm off out to take in some fresh air up in Lyme Park before they put a tax on that What would you like him to do in Dover? Genuinely, what value would him going to Dover bring?
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Post by suedehead on Aug 28, 2024 8:26:47 GMT
As a follow on to tvor's ramblings, the amount of stuff you see on twitter about STARMERGEDDON and STARMER THE LIAR etc is just bonkers. As if he's personally responsible for everything that's knackered in the country after less than two months as PM.
Have said it before but the ignorance and stupidity of some is genuinely impressive. How you can have access to so much information, which is so freely available, and you still come up with this nonsense.
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