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Post by bigmartin on Aug 5, 2020 8:51:18 GMT
Sorry Timbers. I always read your posts buddy, but you are well wid eod the mark on this one. Race is screaming out here as the main factor. You have seen the stats. It is bleeding obvious.i really wish it wasn’t, but it is. could be just me matty as i just cannot get my head around racism one little bit. have worked with and beside many of the so called BAME community most of my working life with no issues whatsoever. yes, i,ll admit i prefered to work with a white person of my age only for a couple of reasons. there was more chance to natter about football and cars than others. when i was a bus inspector i never attempted to ride non white staff or allocating shit overtime to them. i treat everyone the same. however saying all that i do feel nowadays people need more than ever to get facts spot on in their criticism of anyone from the BAME community without having the racist word pointed at you. You're aware you've shown two examples there of unconscious bias? And no, I don't believe that makes you racist. But it's a great example of what these guys in the BAME are up against societally. I've been shown to be guilty of it also by the way in the past.
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Post by suedehead on Aug 5, 2020 9:24:19 GMT
Sorry Timbers. I always read your posts buddy, but you are well wid eod the mark on this one. Race is screaming out here as the main factor. You have seen the stats. It is bleeding obvious.i really wish it wasn’t, but it is. could be just me matty as i just cannot get my head around racism one little bit. have worked with and beside many of the so called BAME community most of my working life with no issues whatsoever. yes, i,ll admit i prefered to work with a white person of my age only for a couple of reasons. there was more chance to natter about football and cars than others. when i was a bus inspector i never attempted to ride non white staff or allocating shit overtime to them. i treat everyone the same. however saying all that i do feel nowadays people need more than ever to get facts spot on in their criticism of anyone from the BAME community without having the racist word pointed at you. That's it there. You've just said 'I preferred to work with a white person'. That doesn't make you racist, I'm not accusing you of that at all. But imagine if someone interviewing a candidate for a job had that same thought. Is that fair?
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Post by desmond on Aug 5, 2020 10:03:14 GMT
Agree with that, plus there isn't a lot of logic to what they do or say. On the day they included Stockport in the "localised" lockdown we had 17 cases per 100k, but it was rising, think its about 24 now. At the same time they patted themselves on the back for the action they took in Leicester and said they could start lifting restrictions. At the time Leicester had 68 cases per 100k. Didn't make sense to me. nothing about it does to me. out of these reported cases i imagine quite a lot will be so mild does it really matter. we were told at the outset that so many will contract the virus without little affect on them. wonder how many on here including myself actually have had this mild attack and did not know about it due to lack of testing at the time. It matters because someone who has mild symptoms and maybe won’t be ill because of it can still pass it on to others who could become seriously ill. The one thing that may be relevant though is that much of the increase could be down to increased testing numbers.
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Post by timberwolf on Aug 5, 2020 10:21:02 GMT
That's it there. You've just said 'I preferred to work with a white person'. That doesn't make you racist, I'm not accusing you of that at all. But imagine if someone interviewing a candidate for a job had that same thought. Is that fair? they are interviewing for a job of work and not for someone with the same outside interests as you. would it also be fair to have a down on someone with different political views, being a practising christian or a monarchist either. not saying you are doing this but quicker we have a proper and sensible debate on race issues without any fear of treding on eggshells then we might get somewhere.
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Post by suedehead on Aug 5, 2020 10:30:13 GMT
That's it there. You've just said 'I preferred to work with a white person'. That doesn't make you racist, I'm not accusing you of that at all. But imagine if someone interviewing a candidate for a job had that same thought. Is that fair? they are interviewing for a job of work and not for someone with the same outside interests as you. would it also be fair to have a down on someone with different political views, being a practising christian or a monarchist either. not saying you are doing this but quicker we have a proper and sensible debate on race issues without any fear of treding on eggshells then we might get somewhere. But if the person interviewing had the mindset of ‘I prefer to work with a white person’, regardless of whether that is because of interests or whatever, I wouldn’t want to be the non-white person in the running for that job.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2020 10:59:55 GMT
It's all gone quiet on the death count too, as if 50,000 dying doesn't matter. We're still seeing 70-100 dying most days, 89 reported yesterday. Last week they said the average death rate for the UK over the past month or so is less now than it has been for the previous five years. And some illnesses that you would expect to see as cause of death have massively reduced or disappeared. One being bronchial pneumonia which I guess the symptoms of which could be mistaken as COVID?
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Post by timberwolf on Aug 5, 2020 11:00:03 GMT
they are interviewing for a job of work and not for someone with the same outside interests as you. would it also be fair to have a down on someone with different political views, being a practising christian or a monarchist either. not saying you are doing this but quicker we have a proper and sensible debate on race issues without any fear of treding on eggshells then we might get somewhere. But if the person interviewing had the mindset of ‘I prefer to work with a white person’, regardless of whether that is because of interests or whatever, I wouldn’t want to be the non-white person in the running for that job. again you have either twisted what i originally wrote or you have taken something totally out of context. it could have been my inherant lazyness as i should of stated correctly that i prefered to work for 8 hours with someone with the same interests as me and therefore mine with them. i can imagine that after 8 hours with me they had petrol, football and in summer cricket coming out of their ears. it was not meant to be a race issue as in the 70,s and 80,s you would be pushed to find more than a handful of BAME lads having similar interests to me. thats a fact and not guesswork. some drivers prefered to work with men over women. this is not a sexist issue its just a prefenance. same as your interviewer i suppose. he would have some idea in the sex of the person the firm required anyway or the type. its just the same with a football manager where there is one type of player they prefer over another and have their own reasons for doing so. there is nothing sinister about the majority of things.
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Post by bigmartin on Aug 5, 2020 11:36:38 GMT
But if the person interviewing had the mindset of ‘I prefer to work with a white person’, regardless of whether that is because of interests or whatever, I wouldn’t want to be the non-white person in the running for that job. again you have either twisted what i originally wrote or you have taken something totally out of context. it could have been my inherant lazyness as i should of stated correctly that i prefered to work for 8 hours with someone with the same interests as me and therefore mine with them. i can imagine that after 8 hours with me they had petrol, football and in summer cricket coming out of their ears. it was not meant to be a race issue as in the 70,s and 80,s you would be pushed to find more than a handful of BAME lads having similar interests to me. thats a fact and not guesswork. some drivers prefered to work with men over women. this is not a sexist issue its just a prefenance. same as your interviewer i suppose. he would have some idea in the sex of the person the firm required anyway or the type. its just the same with a football manager where there is one type of player they prefer over another and have their own reasons for doing so. there is nothing sinister about the majority of things. You're claiming it a fact that Black and Asian lads in the 70s and 80s didn't like cars, football or cricket ? Interesting claim is that mate. I say this from the perspective of playing football on the local fields in Hyde with a bunch of people which included a couple of Asians, a black lad called Clive Thompson, and the Chinese lads who have run Kongs Chippy in Hyde for over 40 years. I highly dispute that Asians and blacks back then didn't like cricket. I think that's a staggering claim given the cricket of that time especially. Football, well the black community hadn't made the significant break through by then I guess. Which of course they wouldn't if everyone assumed it wasn't something that interested black people. I do understand people's exasperation that stuff like this always deteriorates into talk of racism. Unconscious bias doesn't necessarily equate to conscious prejudice. But can you understand why someone in that group of black and asian guys might feel prejudiced against ?
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Post by badgersc on Aug 5, 2020 12:40:23 GMT
It's all gone quiet on the death count too, as if 50,000 dying doesn't matter. We're still seeing 70-100 dying most days, 89 reported yesterday. Last week they said the average death rate for the UK over the past month or so is less now than it has been for the previous five years. And some illnesses that you would expect to see as cause of death have massively reduced or disappeared. One being bronchial pneumonia which I guess the symptoms of which could be mistaken as COVID? The latest figures are out today, for week 30. 6th consecutive week where deaths are below the 5 yearly average. The stats are complicated but overall I think it's reasonable to state that the daily figure quoted does not accurately reflect covid deaths.
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Post by badgersc on Aug 5, 2020 12:41:11 GMT
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Post by razimmerman on Aug 5, 2020 20:28:29 GMT
The latest figures are out today, for week 30. 6th consecutive week where deaths are below the 5 yearly average. The stats are complicated but overall I think it's reasonable to state that the daily figure quoted does not accurately reflect covid deaths. Unless I'm mistaken, in England a person who has tested positive at any point who then dies is recorded as a covid death, regardless of when they tested positive. So at the moment surely the daily deaths statistic is completely misleading.
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Post by vicar on Aug 5, 2020 20:39:31 GMT
The latest figures are out today, for week 30. 6th consecutive week where deaths are below the 5 yearly average. The stats are complicated but overall I think it's reasonable to state that the daily figure quoted does not accurately reflect covid deaths. Unless I'm mistaken, in England a person who has tested positive at any point who then dies is recorded as a covid death, regardless of when they tested positive. So at the moment surely the daily deaths statistic is completely misleading. I've read that and I've also read it's not true, I think there's an attempt by some to muddy the water.
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Post by HTC on Aug 5, 2020 20:50:44 GMT
It is / was true for one set of stats.
This is all a bit half remembered, but essentially, there are two slightly different totals in circulation, one set comes from Public Health England, the other from the Office of National Statistics (I think these are the two relevant bodies, but may have misremembered)
Until a week or two back, the PHE stats were being calculated as Razimmerman said. This was a methodology error, and never affected the ONS stats, which were the main ones used in the media etc. throughout the crisis.
I know they were changing the way the PHE stats were being calculated, but not sure whether this was being done retrospectively.
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Post by razimmerman on Aug 5, 2020 21:00:25 GMT
It is / was true for one set of stats. This is all a bit half remembered, but essentially, there are two slightly different totals in circulation, one set comes from Public Health England, the other from the Office of National Statistics (I think these are the two relevant bodies, but may have misremembered) Until a week or two back, the PHE stats were being calculated as Razimmerman said. This was a methodology error, and never affected the ONS stats, which were the main ones used in the media etc. throughout the crisis. I know they were changing the way the PHE stats were being calculated, but not sure whether this was being done retrospectively. Just had a quick read around and seems like you're correct. Essentially the total UK death toll is accurate, the deaths for England may be slightly off but not significantly. And the fact that I am talking about a death toll of 45,000 in a blasé and dispassionate way is a testament to what a shitshow this has been from start to finish.
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Post by vicar on Aug 6, 2020 8:59:02 GMT
I rezd that if someone had covid and recovered but got hit by a bus it would be recorded as a covid death, then I read that's rubbish as the death certificate wouldn't even mention it, it only records the actual cause of death and not previous illnesses, I tend to believe the latter.
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