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Post by Ngard on Mar 12, 2021 18:25:20 GMT
It’s a similar amount of games Gannon got at Port Vale and they were right to sack him. I think a lot of County fans aren’t adjusting their argument for the rhetoric coming out of the club “championship in 7 years”, spending nearly a quarter of million on transfer fees etc. That’s why the Rusk appointment was so alienating as appointing a fresh as grass manager didn’t make sense. Of course, after the SW interview I think the clarity is there now and we can see why we have someone like SR. With regards to making an assessment. Think you can start forming opinions after 10 games and the so far the football served under Rusk hasn’t been great, we are averaging less PPG than Gannon, playing a rigid 4-4-2 and I have questions about whether he has a good tactical ability to make changes to the game. Do I personally think he should go after these amount of games? Of course not, he deserves to the end of the season as getting rid of another manager won’t fix the mess. If we miss out on promotion this season, should he go? Imo yes I agree with a lot of what you say. However, I think every manager deserves a close season and then a run of games to show what they can do (unless they are a complete and utter disaster like Melia or McKnight). I think from the position he inherited from JG the POs are a minimum for SR to secure the right to next season. If we don’t finish in them then he probably should go. However, I wouldn’t make promotion the trigger personally. On reflection I think you're right that 'nothing but promotion' is too harsh. If Gannon missed out on promotion in the playoffs etc I would probably be posting he deserves another bite at the cherry/start of next season to continue so its only fair Rusk would get the same especially coming in midway through the season. I would have serious reservations about him staying for a new season if we failed to reach the playoffs, but quite frankly I don't want to contemplate that as it should be literally impossible with this squad. |
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Post by BWScarf on Mar 12, 2021 19:16:01 GMT
It’s a similar amount of games Gannon got at Port Vale and they were right to sack him. I think a lot of County fans aren’t adjusting their argument for the rhetoric coming out of the club “championship in 7 years”, spending nearly a quarter of million on transfer fees etc. That’s why the Rusk appointment was so alienating as appointing a fresh as grass manager didn’t make sense. Of course, after the SW interview I think the clarity is there now and we can see why we have someone like SR. With regards to making an assessment. Think you can start forming opinions after 10 games and the so far the football served under Rusk hasn’t been great, we are averaging less PPG than Gannon, playing a rigid 4-4-2 and I have questions about whether he has a good tactical ability to make changes to the game. Do I personally think he should go after these amount of games? Of course not, he deserves to the end of the season as getting rid of another manager won’t fix the mess. If we miss out on promotion this season, should he go? Imo yes I agree with a lot of what you say. However, I think every manager deserves a close season and then a run of games to show what they can do (unless they are a complete and utter disaster like Melia or McKnight). I think from the position he inherited from JG the POs are a minimum for SR to secure the right to next season. If we don’t finish in them then he probably should go. However, I wouldn’t make promotion the trigger personally. Yeah, agreed. Losing the playoffs isn’t a crime. Not making them would be the trigger failure for me. |
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Post by Stranded Hatter on Mar 12, 2021 20:25:20 GMT
You make a good point. Jim isn't like that, everytime he came in he proceeded to remove the better players. Matt hamshaw sticks in the memory, Jim isn't that type of manager. The reason why he did well at county is that he had that bit of credit in the bank which meant we were forgiving of those sort of decisions. Yep. I love the bloke to bits but I wouldn't want him coming in where I was established and performing and trying to "improve me". I completely share that sympathy and while I think people like Geoff Horsefield come across as a knob whenever the subject rears its head, Jim was completely not what Port Vale needed at that moment. An opinion I could imagine he shares. |
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Post by Stranded Hatter on Mar 12, 2021 20:26:52 GMT
It’s a similar amount of games Gannon got at Port Vale and they were right to sack him. I think a lot of County fans aren’t adjusting their argument for the rhetoric coming out of the club “championship in 7 years”, spending nearly a quarter of million on transfer fees etc. That’s why the Rusk appointment was so alienating as appointing a fresh as grass manager didn’t make sense. Of course, after the SW interview I think the clarity is there now and we can see why we have someone like SR. With regards to making an assessment. Think you can start forming opinions after 10 games and the so far the football served under Rusk hasn’t been great, we are averaging less PPG than Gannon, playing a rigid 4-4-2 and I have questions about whether he has a good tactical ability to make changes to the game. Do I personally think he should go after these amount of games? Of course not, he deserves to the end of the season as getting rid of another manager won’t fix the mess. If we miss out on promotion this season, should he go? Imo yes I agree with a lot of what you say. However, I think every manager deserves a close season and then a run of games to show what they can do (unless they are a complete and utter disaster like Melia or McKnight). I think from the position he inherited from JG the POs are a minimum for SR to secure the right to next season. If we don’t finish in them then he probably should go. However, I wouldn’t make promotion the trigger personally. If we failed to make the playoffs then he and Wilson should both go and Stott should beg Jim to come back. But I agree making the playoffs and not getting promoted should be enough for him to get next season IMVHO. |
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Post by Stranded Hatter on Mar 12, 2021 20:28:06 GMT
I agree with a lot of what you say. However, I think every manager deserves a close season and then a run of games to show what they can do (unless they are a complete and utter disaster like Melia or McKnight). I think from the position he inherited from JG the POs are a minimum for SR to secure the right to next season. If we don’t finish in them then he probably should go. However, I wouldn’t make promotion the trigger personally. Yeah, agreed. Losing the playoffs isn’t a crime. Not making them would be the trigger failure for me. Not making the top 7 with this squad, and where we were in the table when he took over, would be an abject failure and an embarrassment. |
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Post by darkhorse on Mar 12, 2021 20:42:03 GMT
3rd minimum
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Post by m20hatter on Mar 12, 2021 20:49:35 GMT
Yeah, agreed. Losing the playoffs isn’t a crime. Not making them would be the trigger failure for me. Not making the top 7 with this squad, and where we were in the table when he took over, would be an abject failure and an embarrassment. I know it’s not this simple, but for me, top 5 budget should mean top 5. Accounting for the surprise package/s I completely agree that it has to be a play off spot as a minimum. |
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Post by bigmartin on Mar 12, 2021 23:38:15 GMT
Agreed. They hit the frickin button...they have to step up. And if they can't achieve 3rd after having done everything they've done then they should all pack their bags and piss off from whence they came. |
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Post by timberwolf on Mar 13, 2021 8:52:41 GMT
I've got an element of sympathy with the PV players on this. I work in a group of 10 people where the engine room, perhaps four or five of us, have around 150 years of trade experience amongst us. So we know what we're doing. It works. And our numbers are good every year without exception. It works because new Managers/Directors come in, take one look at the numbers, and say "this is working...no changes necessary". If a new Manager came in and started pissing around with us four of those five would retire. And I'd follow when first able in about three years. Sometimes you don't need to fix what isn't broken. thats a good summing up on football and life in general. use what you have at your disposal to the best you can manage. no one likes change especially when its working especially if seen as a change for changes sake. the problem at vale was from our point of view was that jim could do little wrong in our minds therefore the vale players must be wrong. |
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Post by desmond on Mar 13, 2021 11:48:56 GMT
I've got an element of sympathy with the PV players on this. I work in a group of 10 people where the engine room, perhaps four or five of us, have around 150 years of trade experience amongst us. So we know what we're doing. It works. And our numbers are good every year without exception. It works because new Managers/Directors come in, take one look at the numbers, and say "this is working...no changes necessary". If a new Manager came in and started pissing around with us four of those five would retire. And I'd follow when first able in about three years. Sometimes you don't need to fix what isn't broken. thats a good summing up on football and life in general. use what you have at your disposal to the best you can manage. no one likes change especially when its working especially if seen as a change for changes sake. the problem at vale was from our point of view was that jim could do little wrong in our minds therefore the vale players must be wrong. For anyone interested in “change” within a business it’s worth reading up on how Neutron Jack Welch ran GE. He championed regular change, challenged the very idea of senior people staying in roles for longer than 2 years and developed a “forced ranking system” that would see even good performers moved on from the business. He had a strong believe that people would become lazy and stop challenging themselves to do better and that in those instances they could be an asset to another business but wouldn’t deliver the growth he wanted for GE. Under him GE became the largest business in the world, drive huge growth and shareholder return, under his replacement (Jeff Immelt) many of those ideas were dropped and the stock value of the business plummeted leading to a breakup of the conglomerate. For sure it wouldn’t work for every business but it was certainly interesting times and actually drove many people on to have very successful careers. |
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Post by badgersc on Mar 13, 2021 12:39:45 GMT
It’s a similar amount of games Gannon got at Port Vale and they were right to sack him. I think a lot of County fans aren’t adjusting their argument for the rhetoric coming out of the club “championship in 7 years”, spending nearly a quarter of million on transfer fees etc. That’s why the Rusk appointment was so alienating as appointing a fresh as grass manager didn’t make sense. Of course, after the SW interview I think the clarity is there now and we can see why we have someone like SR. With regards to making an assessment. Think you can start forming opinions after 10 games and the so far the football served under Rusk hasn’t been great, we are averaging less PPG than Gannon, playing a rigid 4-4-2 and I have questions about whether he has a good tactical ability to make changes to the game. Do I personally think he should go after these amount of games? Of course not, he deserves to the end of the season as getting rid of another manager won’t fix the mess. If we miss out on promotion this season, should he go? Imo yes Regarding the Rusk stuff, yep. Bang on. It’s to Rusk’s credit that he changed things on Tuesday and got a great result. He appears to be learning. That’s a good thing. It pisses me off that we opted for someone who has to learn on the job in the circumstances we’re in, but he can only be judged on his performance. So far he’s been alright and no better. Very happy to see where we are at the end of the season, if nothing else because this season is a bit of a mess anyway (even if it ends well!) I think that inevitably, he has been trying different things out. I agree that he is an inexperienced manager, but he’s a very highly qualified coach. “He appears to be learning. That’s a good thing.” comes across as a bit patronising. Maybe you’ve got some specific expertise though, I certainly don’t, but aside from that I think it’s quite hard to judge exactly who is doing what when viewing on a TV screen, as opposed to the top of the Cheadle End say. Definitely need more time to judge IMO. |
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Post by mattyovrio on Mar 14, 2021 9:53:51 GMT
If Rusk doesn’t work out, the amount of money it will have cost says to me Wilson should be on his way because he has made a massive call in sacking JG and then compounded that major error by bringing someone in who wasn’t up to the job. That for me would be enough to show him the door without even taking into account going on a webinar with Ryan McShite.
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Post by timberwolf on Mar 14, 2021 10:52:15 GMT
If Rusk doesn’t work out, the amount of money it will have cost says to me Wilson should be on his way because he has made a massive call in sacking JG and then compounded that major error by bringing someone in who wasn’t up to the job. That for me would be enough to show him the door without even taking into account going on a webinar with Ryan McShite. agree. think we should all wait and see about rusk and then judge wilson. if it doesn,t come off he should be shown the door quickly and not be allowed to throw the clubs money down the drain. if rusk and the team come off then hopefully this thread will end. got a feeling many fans are being like a rubber band at the moment. getting stretched to wanting the team to win on one hand to hope they don,t just to knock rusk/wilson. |
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Post by badgersc on Mar 14, 2021 13:04:11 GMT
If Rusk doesn’t work out, the amount of money it will have cost says to me Wilson should be on his way because he has made a massive call in sacking JG and then compounded that major error by bringing someone in who wasn’t up to the job. That for me would be enough to show him the door without even taking into account going on a webinar with Ryan McShite. Agreed. Originally I thought Wilson shpuld go, and Rusk given a proper chance. Since become clear that I think that would be unfair on Rusk. See Wilson/Rusk as much more of a team. Corollary of that is that if Rusk fails and goes, then Wilson should too. |
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Post by mattyovrio on Mar 14, 2021 19:33:22 GMT
Fair comment Badger
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