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Post by Sina on Mar 20, 2021 9:30:44 GMT
Don't think this is regarding Jim. It's Wilson if you read it back. Don’t think there’s ever been the suggestion of people putting Simon Wilson before the club. He’s talking about Jim. PSP was commenting on a post by Scarf regarding a fan who had seen an interview by Wilson and wasn't going to renew his season ticket on the back of that. |
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Post by herbiedumplings on Mar 20, 2021 9:48:46 GMT
Jim has more respect than Wilson, McKnight, Kennedy, Fearn, Evans, Snape and the rest of the jokers who have been at the club. I am sure more will come in the future but you don’t throw the towel in. Bit of a prompt here to summarise my thoughts more widely on the events of the past couple of months. I realise that for some, there is an issue with Simon Wilson over the Jim sacking, but to include him on a list of ‘jokers’ like McKnight et al simply devalues any point you are trying to make if you cannot see the difference between him and them.... To counter that, I think the Madden signing was arranged in desperation precisely to both stop to criticism and as a Hail Mary to boost our playoff chances. It could be a stroke of genius; it could be as abject a failure as when City signed Weah. As for the training ground, I don’t think undoing a decision that was clearly foolish shows any massive insight. Carrington was available to be taken over so it’s not as though he got it built. As for the issue with the focus on data, if Rusk really is implementing the data the way Wilson wants it done, then it’s important to realise quite how much of a mountain he has to climb to get better results from it than Gannon did supposedly fighting against it. W3D3 or better from the next six games. Which brings me to the “not a joker” thing. I still see the similarities because both sets of people have this “pretend you’re a League club to be a League club” thing going on. Will we need to be set up with a cast of thousands behind the scenes, players on six-figure salaries, an indoor training pitch and so on if we get into the League? Very possibly. Will all those things guarantee we get there? Looking less and less likely, and what worries me more than anything is that benevolent as Stott has been I can’t see that he’s going to keep shelling out for all of it forever so there’s an element of do or die about it that I honestly don’t think Wilson understands with his “Championship in 7 might actually be 10” comment. After a big win against a depleted and declining side, plus a skin-of-the-teeth job against the team who are effectively bottom, today really is I think the acid test. While we might well not have lost against them at EP had it not been for the stupid OG and incorrect dismissal, I’m not sure we ever threatened them all that much. If we’re serious about getting promoted we need to be on top though, and that’s not something I really think we’ve ever been all season with either Gannon or Rusk at the helm. But the person selecting transfer targets and dictating the style of play has been the same... |
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Post by timberwolf on Mar 20, 2021 10:05:58 GMT
just wish stott had never said that championship in 7 years statement. its an unneccesary statement that puts pressure on those below him and the fans who really believe its going and should happen. nothing but promotion worked out really well didn,t it.
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Post by desmond on Mar 20, 2021 11:05:21 GMT
Bit of a prompt here to summarise my thoughts more widely on the events of the past couple of months. I realise that for some, there is an issue with Simon Wilson over the Jim sacking, but to include him on a list of ‘jokers’ like McKnight et al simply devalues any point you are trying to make if you cannot see the difference between him and them.... To counter that, I think the Madden signing was arranged in desperation precisely to both stop to criticism and as a Hail Mary to boost our playoff chances. It could be a stroke of genius; it could be as abject a failure as when City signed Weah. As for the training ground, I don’t think undoing a decision that was clearly foolish shows any massive insight. Carrington was available to be taken over so it’s not as though he got it built. As for the issue with the focus on data, if Rusk really is implementing the data the way Wilson wants it done, then it’s important to realise quite how much of a mountain he has to climb to get better results from it than Gannon did supposedly fighting against it. W3D3 or better from the next six games. Which brings me to the “not a joker” thing. I still see the similarities because both sets of people have this “pretend you’re a League club to be a League club” thing going on. Will we need to be set up with a cast of thousands behind the scenes, players on six-figure salaries, an indoor training pitch and so on if we get into the League? Very possibly. Will all those things guarantee we get there? Looking less and less likely, and what worries me more than anything is that benevolent as Stott has been I can’t see that he’s going to keep shelling out for all of it forever so there’s an element of do or die about it that I honestly don’t think Wilson understands with his “Championship in 7 might actually be 10” comment. After a big win against a depleted and declining side, plus a skin-of-the-teeth job against the team who are effectively bottom, today really is I think the acid test. While we might well not have lost against them at EP had it not been for the stupid OG and incorrect dismissal, I’m not sure we ever threatened them all that much. If we’re serious about getting promoted we need to be on top though, and that’s not something I really think we’ve ever been all season with either Gannon or Rusk at the helm. But the person selecting transfer targets and dictating the style of play has been the same... The Points per game thing is just being used as a stick to beat Wilson/Rusk. As much as you’d like to make it about the next 6 games the reality is Rusk is on a long term contract and will be judged by those that matter over a longer period than the next 6 games. If we are in the play offs come the end of season then he’ll rightly be manager next season regardless of his PPG measure v JG’s. |
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Post by herbiedumplings on Mar 20, 2021 11:34:13 GMT
To counter that, I think the Madden signing was arranged in desperation precisely to both stop to criticism and as a Hail Mary to boost our playoff chances. It could be a stroke of genius; it could be as abject a failure as when City signed Weah. As for the training ground, I don’t think undoing a decision that was clearly foolish shows any massive insight. Carrington was available to be taken over so it’s not as though he got it built. As for the issue with the focus on data, if Rusk really is implementing the data the way Wilson wants it done, then it’s important to realise quite how much of a mountain he has to climb to get better results from it than Gannon did supposedly fighting against it. W3D3 or better from the next six games. Which brings me to the “not a joker” thing. I still see the similarities because both sets of people have this “pretend you’re a League club to be a League club” thing going on. Will we need to be set up with a cast of thousands behind the scenes, players on six-figure salaries, an indoor training pitch and so on if we get into the League? Very possibly. Will all those things guarantee we get there? Looking less and less likely, and what worries me more than anything is that benevolent as Stott has been I can’t see that he’s going to keep shelling out for all of it forever so there’s an element of do or die about it that I honestly don’t think Wilson understands with his “Championship in 7 might actually be 10” comment. After a big win against a depleted and declining side, plus a skin-of-the-teeth job against the team who are effectively bottom, today really is I think the acid test. While we might well not have lost against them at EP had it not been for the stupid OG and incorrect dismissal, I’m not sure we ever threatened them all that much. If we’re serious about getting promoted we need to be on top though, and that’s not something I really think we’ve ever been all season with either Gannon or Rusk at the helm. But the person selecting transfer targets and dictating the style of play has been the same... The Points per game thing is just being used as a stick to beat Wilson/Rusk. As much as you’d like to make it about the next 6 games the reality is Rusk is on a long term contract and will be judged by those that matter over a longer period than the next 6 games. If we are in the play offs come the end of season then he’ll rightly be manager next season regardless of his PPG measure v JG’s. There’s probably a lot of truth in that, however dismissing the PPG thing out of hand is I think going far too easy on Rusk and particularly Wilson. I can’t remember if it’s this thread or another one where Neutron Jack’s name popped up; he was all about adding value, however what value has Wilson added by bringing in Rusk and McGhee, arranging for the signing of an ex-L1 striker on a six-figure salary, expanding our backroom staff and all the rest, if all it’s done is stop us dropping out of the playoffs? Talk about running to stand still. As far as the opinions of those that matter go, I wonder what Stott felt about Wilson giving himself another three years to deliver on the target he’d been set? |
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Post by vicar on Mar 20, 2021 11:45:48 GMT
To counter that, I think the Madden signing was arranged in desperation precisely to both stop to criticism and as a Hail Mary to boost our playoff chances. It could be a stroke of genius; it could be as abject a failure as when City signed Weah. As for the training ground, I don’t think undoing a decision that was clearly foolish shows any massive insight. Carrington was available to be taken over so it’s not as though he got it built. As for the issue with the focus on data, if Rusk really is implementing the data the way Wilson wants it done, then it’s important to realise quite how much of a mountain he has to climb to get better results from it than Gannon did supposedly fighting against it. W3D3 or better from the next six games. Which brings me to the “not a joker” thing. I still see the similarities because both sets of people have this “pretend you’re a League club to be a League club” thing going on. Will we need to be set up with a cast of thousands behind the scenes, players on six-figure salaries, an indoor training pitch and so on if we get into the League? Very possibly. Will all those things guarantee we get there? Looking less and less likely, and what worries me more than anything is that benevolent as Stott has been I can’t see that he’s going to keep shelling out for all of it forever so there’s an element of do or die about it that I honestly don’t think Wilson understands with his “Championship in 7 might actually be 10” comment. After a big win against a depleted and declining side, plus a skin-of-the-teeth job against the team who are effectively bottom, today really is I think the acid test. While we might well not have lost against them at EP had it not been for the stupid OG and incorrect dismissal, I’m not sure we ever threatened them all that much. If we’re serious about getting promoted we need to be on top though, and that’s not something I really think we’ve ever been all season with either Gannon or Rusk at the helm. But the person selecting transfer targets and dictating the style of play has been the same... The Points per game thing is just being used as a stick to beat Wilson/Rusk. As much as you’d like to make it about the next 6 games the reality is Rusk is on a long term contract and will be judged by those that matter over a longer period than the next 6 games. If we are in the play offs come the end of season then he’ll rightly be manager next season regardless of his PPG measure v JG’s. The PPG is what leagues are won and lost on and the reality is Jim was on a long contract, would you say that being 3rd in the league would rightly mean the he got the sack? |
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Post by desmond on Mar 20, 2021 12:00:35 GMT
The Points per game thing is just being used as a stick to beat Wilson/Rusk. As much as you’d like to make it about the next 6 games the reality is Rusk is on a long term contract and will be judged by those that matter over a longer period than the next 6 games. If we are in the play offs come the end of season then he’ll rightly be manager next season regardless of his PPG measure v JG’s. The PPG is what leagues are won and lost on and the reality is Jim was on a long contract, would you say that being 3rd in the league would rightly mean the he got the sack? I wouldn’t have sacked him. But as we were told and seems to becoming ever more apparent it wasn’t about results which makes the PPG comparison even less relevant. The key question now IMO will be will Simon Rusk be a success over the term of his contract. I genuinely hope he will be. |
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Post by herbiedumplings on Mar 20, 2021 12:11:53 GMT
The PPG is what leagues are won and lost on and the reality is Jim was on a long contract, would you say that being 3rd in the league would rightly mean the he got the sack? I wouldn’t have sacked him. But as we were told and seems to becoming ever more apparent it wasn’t about results which makes the PPG comparison even less relevant. The key question now IMO will be will Simon Rusk be a success over the term of his contract. I genuinely hope he will be. I think everyone *hopes* Rusk (and Wilson) will bring success; where people differ I reckon is a) whether they *expect* him/them to deliver success, b) how much slack they’re prepared to cut him/them if they don’t believe him/them to be capable of it, and c) how confident they are about what the fallout might be if ultimately he/they fail/s despite all the resources the owner has put at his/their disposal. |
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Post by countybumpkin on Mar 20, 2021 16:33:34 GMT
Can we make this a pinned post now please?
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Post by mattyovrio on Mar 21, 2021 18:50:36 GMT
What was your view of Wilson before Jim got sacked Phil? (and this isn't, for once!!, an argumentative post, just curious to know - I don't recall much opinion either way on him before recent events) He was saying all of the right things and I was willing to back him until his actions proved otherwise. His actions proved otherwise. Agreed Phil. He was very much in the background. On his rare public appearances, he was highly complimentary of Jim. Then he stabbed him in the back to get his mate in. A in the grass 🐍 |
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Post by darkhorse on Mar 21, 2021 19:41:37 GMT
He was saying all of the right things and I was willing to back him until his actions proved otherwise. His actions proved otherwise. Agreed Phil. He was very much in the background. On his rare public appearances, he was highly complimentary of Jim. Then he stabbed him in the back to get his mate in. A in the grass 🐍
Wilson in his first interview last March made it clear the manager would have less responsibility from now on. Jim was offered and signed a new contract in August presumably with a new role and responsibilities. Jim is a club legend but also has a history of interpersonal conflicts within the game that have stopped him from managing at a higher level.
It's probably not all black and white. |
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Post by herbiedumplings on Mar 21, 2021 20:25:57 GMT
Agreed Phil. He was very much in the background. On his rare public appearances, he was highly complimentary of Jim. Then he stabbed him in the back to get his mate in. A in the grass 🐍
Wilson in his first interview last March made it clear the manager would have less responsibility from now on. Jim was offered and signed a new contract in August presumably with a new role and responsibilities. Jim is a club legend but also has a history of interpersonal conflicts within the game that have stopped him from managing at a higher level.
It's probably not all black and white. Considering one of the few things we know about how Wilson ended up as DoF is that he was originally appointed to do due diligence on the purchase, it’s almost as though you’re suggesting Wilson either did a bad job on the DD and didn’t know what Gannon was actually like, or offered him a contract he knew he couldn’t abide by because he was scared of letting him go with unfinished business hanging over him? |
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Post by darkhorse on Mar 21, 2021 20:43:16 GMT
Can we stop all this snake business, we aren't a load of teenage girls. Can we also acknowledge that as good a manager as he is Jim also has his flaws and we all know about them.
Wilson in his first interview last March made it clear the manager would have less responsibility from now on. Jim was offered and signed a new contract in August presumably with a new role and responsibilities. Jim is a club legend but also has a history of interpersonal conflicts within the game that have stopped him from managing at a higher level.
It's probably not all black and white. Considering one of the few things we know about how Wilson ended up as DoF is that he was originally appointed to do due diligence on the purchase, it’s almost as though you’re suggesting Wilson either did a bad job on the DD and didn’t know what Gannon was actually like, or offered him a contract he knew he couldn’t abide by because he was scared of letting him go with unfinished business hanging over him? A more boring (and therefore more likely) scenario is that they were aware of his history but gave him a fair chance to adapt and commit to working under the new conditions so were confident enough to offer a new contract. Then things broke down. |
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Post by Tameside_hatter on Mar 21, 2021 21:22:36 GMT
Think Wilson will be gone by next September, Doesn't strike me as somebody who will hang around when the going starts to get a bit tough. Also financially will have cost the club quite a bit so must be under quite a bit of pressure already. Not the best move to way lyrical about an employee on National TV and then two weeks later sack the guy.
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Post by ricky on Mar 21, 2021 21:26:35 GMT
Jim has more respect than Wilson, McKnight, Kennedy, Fearn, Evans, Snape and the rest of the jokers who have been at the club. I am sure more will come in the future but you don’t throw the towel in. Bit of a prompt here to summarise my thoughts more widely on the events of the past couple of months. I realise that for some, there is an issue with Simon Wilson over the Jim sacking, but to include him on a list of ‘jokers’ like McKnight et al simply devalues any point you are trying to make if you cannot see the difference between him and them. Only one of your list of jokers would have been capable of capturing a Paddy Madden, securing the Training Centre, and a long list of other coordinated improvements - and it was not just about throwing Mark Stott’s money at it. I did post at the time of Simon Rusk’s appointment that one benefit would be that we might attract some players here that would have been more difficult under Jim. We currently have a competent and highly professional DoF - some might not like one major decision he has made, but that is an entirely different matter; Ryan McKnight and the others as you rightly say were jokers in comparison. But the sniping - putting Wilson on this incompetents’ list - has now just become a tiresome, predictable, and repetitive vendetta, serving little purpose whatsoever. Indeed, I am struggling to understand the real motive now for the continued negativity, especially as regards the DoF for whom it seems some fans are not prepared to let the Jim matter drop - the one issue in truth that really is at the root of almost all the hostility towards Wilson - even though things have moved on considerably. The fact is, that in a number of areas, things have, or are improving. I personally am happy with the more professional set-up at the club - including Simon Wilson - it is a key part of getting County back to being an established EFL club. I also feel that the players are noticeably more together; Liam Hogan’s comment post-Barnet about how the game was won, whereas under Jim it would have been a draw, was very revealing. Despite the sniping about Wilson’s ‘culture’, I think it is evident that the Club is forging a new more professional identity; the trick will be to blend effectively the best of the old with the best of the new. I simply cannot understand the silly comments being made criticising the use of data - another area of constant sniping - it is an important part of modern football, and pretty much every other business or service as well - we use it endlessly in schools for example as well. I trust the professionals at the club to be data rich, whilst avoiding the pitfalls of being information and analysis poor. Regarding ‘respect’, listening to almost all the player and new player interviews over the past two months, the levels of respect for the club, management, and for each other appear to me to be clearly better than they were before. Jim’s status as a club legend in my eyes is not altered one jot by his sacking, nor ever will be; thinking back, I was only more upset by Danny’s departure, and way back, possibly Jimmy Meadows first exit in 1969. We need the 12th man as part of our journey back to the EFL, threads with a heading ‘Wilson Out’ are divisive, destructive, and not always fair. I write this not as a Wilson fan-boy, just as someone who would like to see a little more balance, and harmony amongst the fan-base, especially as everything surrounding Jim’s departure, due to pretty standard non-disclosure agreements, means that there is rather more speculation and conjecture flying around - still - than hard facts. I found it incredible that there were still people posting criticisms of Wilson on here for dodging questions about Jim in the recent interview with JK. The point about Jim has been made, we move on - hopefully together. Brilliant post! We were faced with a dichotomy, keep old owners to keep Jim or have new owners with the financial clout and a different vision to move the club forward with or without Jim. My take on this is Jim and Wilson simply had different views and it didn’t work. Jim didn’t seem particularly happy in the last few months, and frankly, neither did the players, we have to move on because all the sniping and waiting for Rusk and Wilson to fail achieves nothing. |
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