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Post by leicesterhatter on Sept 19, 2021 16:21:04 GMT
Stats aren't a bad thing by themselves though - they pay a major role in football now (with assessing performance levels, fitness, etc). If we use them poorly though, they're completely pointless.
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Post by herbiedumplings on Sept 19, 2021 16:28:47 GMT
Depends how semantic you want to be about job titles, I suppose. I’d say that was what Joppe Meulensteen does. I gather there was someone in-post before him too but couldn’t tell you their name. So he’s analyst something most professional clubs have and I believe Jim very much wanted. I think leicesterhatter’s post just above sums it up better than I could. Use stats well or they might as well be in the “lies, damned lies” category.
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Post by herbiedumplings on Sept 19, 2021 16:30:20 GMT
So he’s analyst something most professional clubs have and I believe Jim very much wanted. I think leicesterhatter’s post just above sums it up better than I could. Use stats well or they might as well be in the “lies, damned lies” category. To wit, our impressive possession stats every game.
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Post by advent on Sept 19, 2021 16:35:40 GMT
Depends how semantic you want to be about job titles, I suppose. I’d say that was what Joppe Meulensteen does. I gather there was someone in-post before him too but couldn’t tell you their name. Joppe Meulensteens notes from yesterday will just read this; Shit. (Probably got paid a fortune to write that too)
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Post by leicesterhatter on Sept 19, 2021 16:45:17 GMT
So he’s analyst something most professional clubs have and I believe Jim very much wanted. I think leicesterhatter’s post just above sums it up better than I could. Use stats well or they might as well be in the “lies, damned lies” category. Exactly. Stats should be factual by their very nature. Having a statistician is great, but if you've got someone looking at their output and making decisions which fly in the face of them, then there's no point in them really. Now those stats play into squad selection, performance, fitness amongst other things. You have to think those stats will show a decline across the board - yet nothing is changing. Which suggests the style of play and tactics aren't working/the personnel aren't either.
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Post by Cale Green Hatter on Sept 19, 2021 17:43:09 GMT
So Wilson has done a very poor job. What has he done that is very poor. What am I making up? That Wilson appointed the statistician? That the inflexible formation is the idea of Rusk and Rusk alone and that Wilson - whose success depends on the team being successful - is happy to see things slide. You said Rusk was playing this way because Wilson was forcing him to and there is no evidence that is the case - in fact there is a lot of evidence that everything on that field is down to Rusk. You’ve made out that our whole ethos on the pitch is based on statistics whereas this isn’t at all the case. And have we even got a statistician? Can you point me to who that is? As for what Wilson has done that is poor - replaced a very good manager with a extremely bad one is by far and away his biggest mistake. He also alongside Rusk and recruitment team have done a terrible job in terms of the balance of the squad. We will no doubt find out sooner or later the extent of Rusk's influence over the tactics and formation when he departs as he no doubt will. Don't get me wrong I'm hoping his replacement will try a wholly different route, we will have to wait and see. Sean O'Callaghan was the Statistician appointed using Wyscout, InStat, 21st Club and the tracking tool Metrica. He's since left and been replaced by a chap called Meulensteen. Simon Wilson's history is very much stats based. It's relevant to the way we play. To what to degree is debatable. I'd agree that the decision to remove Jim from his job was appallingly bad. He didn't appoint Rusk because he was bad so why? He had no history of Managing a competitive Club and as there are always dozens of Managers available who would know exactly what to do with a bigger budget than most why go down the route he did? Compliant?
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Post by oakwoodbank on Sept 19, 2021 22:25:54 GMT
I think leicesterhatter’s post just above sums it up better than I could. Use stats well or they might as well be in the “lies, damned lies” category. Exactly. Stats should be factual by their very nature. Having a statistician is great, but if you've got someone looking at their output and making decisions which fly in the face of them, then there's no point in them really. Now those stats play into squad selection, performance, fitness amongst other things. You have to think those stats will show a decline across the board - yet nothing is changing. Which suggests the style of play and tactics aren't working/the personnel aren't either. Lies, damned lies and statistics. “While many of us pride ourselves in our objective thinking, the reality is that we humans are terrible at evaluating situations and predicting outcomes based on facts only. Confirmation bias is our tendency to seek, interpret, favour, and remember information in a way that confirms our prior hypotheses or personal beliefs. The more we desire a specific outcome or believe in a specific principle, the more likely we are to search for confirming evidence.” And, it seems, go on believing it, even when it isn't working.
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Post by Stranded Hatter on Sept 19, 2021 22:28:05 GMT
Completely agree. But i also think you can look at the recruitment this summer as to how that’s changing. We’ve got a much smaller squad. Got rid of dead wood like Maynard, Bell, Thomas and Bennett. Signed younger players and youth prospects. And then just added a couple of quality additions like Quigley and Whitfield. It’s not been perfect. We’ve obviously seen the imbalance with the lack of left footers and then the search for a fourth striker. (Although I will say I was happy to go with three and just bring in loans as needed to cover). I don’t t think the issue lies with the recruitment or squad profile. I do believe the players are here to get us promoted. We just need someone to get the best from them. Any new manager is obviously going to want their own team in place, which is fair enough. If Rusk goes I imagine we’ll say bye to Beard, McGhee and Conlon as well. So that will cut things down particularly if Wilson limits whoever comes in to just one assistant manager.
Adam Thomas wasn't deadwood for County, he helped us achieve promotion and he's doing very well at Curzon. I don't think he is a first choice option, but we should definitely kept him as cover. He's got a phenominal work rate too and can get up and down the line all day. We've seen injuries to Minihan and Southam Hales and the lack of a decent option down the right - added to injuries to Kitching and the retirement of Jennings, has totally distroyed Rusk's preferred wing back system. And he doesn't have a plan B.
I was no fan of Ritchie Bennett, some of the misses he made from a few yards out were horrific, but it was clear what role he was there to do. We don't have a target man to hold the ball up anymore, someone to hold the ball up and bring Reid or Madden into play. We hoof the ball upfield and concede possession straight away.
With the injury to Quigley we have no option as a target man, but we don't adapt our style of play or bring in a replacement.
People point out top scorers in the NLN as possible options for us, well Adam Thomas is one of those joint top scorers...
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Post by Philcounty on Sept 19, 2021 22:33:52 GMT
Adam Thomas wasn't deadwood for County, he helped us achieve promotion and he's doing very well at Curzon. I don't think he is a first choice option, but we should definitely kept him as cover. He's got a phenominal work rate too and can get up and down the line all day. We've seen injuries to Minihan and Southam Hales and the lack of a decent option down the right - added to injuries to Kitching and the retirement of Jennings, has totally distroyed Rusk's preferred wing back system. And he doesn't have a plan B.
I was no fan of Ritchie Bennett, some of the misses he made from a few yards out were horrific, but it was clear what role he was there to do. We don't have a target man to hold the ball up anymore, someone to hold the ball up and bring Reid or Madden into play. We hoof the ball upfield and concede possession straight away.
With the injury to Quigley we have no option as a target man, but we don't adapt our style of play or bring in a replacement.
People point out top scorers in the NLN as possible options for us, well Adam Thomas is one of those joint top scorers... You must be mistaken. He's not good enough for us.
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Post by ancienthatter on Sept 19, 2021 22:37:19 GMT
People point out top scorers in the NLN as possible options for us, well Adam Thomas is one of those joint top scorers... You must be mistaken. He's not good enough for us. It is bizarre how he was dropped like a hot potato. Don’t understand it.
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Post by m14hatter on Sept 19, 2021 22:38:12 GMT
Adam Thomas wasn't deadwood for County, he helped us achieve promotion and he's doing very well at Curzon. I don't think he is a first choice option, but we should definitely kept him as cover. He's got a phenominal work rate too and can get up and down the line all day. We've seen injuries to Minihan and Southam Hales and the lack of a decent option down the right - added to injuries to Kitching and the retirement of Jennings, has totally distroyed Rusk's preferred wing back system. And he doesn't have a plan B.
I was no fan of Ritchie Bennett, some of the misses he made from a few yards out were horrific, but it was clear what role he was there to do. We don't have a target man to hold the ball up anymore, someone to hold the ball up and bring Reid or Madden into play. We hoof the ball upfield and concede possession straight away.
With the injury to Quigley we have no option as a target man, but we don't adapt our style of play or bring in a replacement.
People point out top scorers in the NLN as possible options for us, well Adam Thomas is one of those joint top scorers... Did nothing of note (barring the worldie against Halifax) in 18 months at this level under Gannon. Didn’t get a chance under Rusk. Would be fine playing for Halifax or Alty but we’ve got better than him in MSH and others.
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Post by ancienthatter on Sept 19, 2021 22:38:39 GMT
You must be mistaken. He's not good enough for us. It is bizarre how he was dropped like a hot potato. Don’t understand it. Maybe it was because Wilson thought he was Gannon’s lovechild.. like half the posters on here last year.
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Post by ancienthatter on Sept 19, 2021 22:39:39 GMT
People point out top scorers in the NLN as possible options for us, well Adam Thomas is one of those joint top scorers... Did nothing of note (barring the worldie against Halifax) in 18 months at this level under Gannon. Didn’t get a chance under Rusk. Would be fine playing for Halifax or Alty but we’ve got better than him in MSH and others. MSH has done nothing in 7 games… just saying.
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Post by oakwoodbank on Sept 19, 2021 22:40:56 GMT
For me SW and SR and his assistants could go tomorrow but we will need some sort of continuity. Half of the players seem happy to play in a system that doesn't work playing turgid slow predictable crap and they could go as well. Dagenham, Yeovil and Halifax have taken us to the cleaners yet the manner of the defeats hasn't hit home - its just a case of "you win some you lose some" bollox. I cannot see any advantage in the sort of continuity you seem to be advocating. The duo of Wilson/Rusk are the architects of our downfall this season. Getting rid of Rusk is a natural football exercise; but Wilson is a more difficult one because his involvement with Mr Stott. That is something that only the owner can resolve and it may be that Mr Stott wouldn't be confident about the future without Wilson still at the club. However, the other side of the continuity (the players) is something that must at least remain for the rest of the season, apart from normal transfer arrangements.
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Post by Stranded Hatter on Sept 19, 2021 22:44:13 GMT
Yeah, there are, absolutely. I always said Jim wouldn’t be with us forever for one reason or another, the key was finding someone who could take us up a step after him. Rusk evidently can’t do that. But if we were Wrexham, or Chesterfield, or Notts, and were looking to sack our manager, Jim would be someone we’d be keen on. . Agree with every word you’ve put and it highlights the stupidity of the decision. But don’t agree that Gannon would be someone Notts or Wrexham etc would choose. They were both looking for managers after Jim left us and appointed other people. I think the mud unfortunately sticks from his time at Vale and the view that he’s too outspoken. He almost certainly didn’t apply to Notts or Wrexham
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