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Post by suedehead on Dec 8, 2013 18:47:03 GMT
Regarding your Peterborough comment, surely if he improved the team and was offered a permanent position that has to be deemed more than 50/50 leaning towards success? I'd say he's had more success than failure, it's just that his failures are more headline worthy as they tend to be controversial.
I'd look at those four players and ask what have they achieved in the game? Other than getting a promotion under Jim, nothing. I can't remember McSweeny ever saying anything, although I could be wrong.
As I've said, he's undoubtedly a tough, stubborn bloke. But he's had success here in the past, why not get him back? Sometimes it just works at one club, but not another. Darren Ferguson is a good example of that. He was poo at Preston but keeps getting Posh promoted.
I don't think Gannon is the only possible solution, but he's one who should certainly be given strong consideration.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2013 19:23:37 GMT
Frankly i am astonished that someone so vocal against Gannon can’t come up with a single suggestion, other than Coleman who clearly isn’t available, to step in should there be a change of ownership and the new owners decide to change the manager.
That was snapes position, anybody but Gannon and it cost us dearly last season.
I would be embarrassed to slag someone off to that extent without offering an alternative. Even snape wound his neck in after it all came crashing down around him, sadly it was too late to make a difference though.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2013 19:38:17 GMT
@ suedehead
By that criteria, who exactly has 'achieved in the game' then? In that case, the argument basically comes down to 'well, Ash, Pilks & Ruddy haven't slated him!' surely? Be interesting to hear the real views of Le Fondre and Dicker as I've heard people state both that they rated him, and also that they hated him. Obviously no proof either way though unless you know better?
Not sure whether we can also add Rodger Wylde here as well, as again I've heard people say both.
@ Fred
I've repeatedly said the job is almost impossible due to off field stuff, and what we really need at the moment is stability, and that the last thing we need right now is another change of manager.
However, I've also given four alternative suggestions I feel would be safer bets than JG, one of whom has since become unavailable, (which rather shows the Southport board also feel Coleman is a better bet than JG of course!) Just because you don't agree with my suggestions doesn't mean I haven't been making them.
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Post by suedehead on Dec 8, 2013 19:48:23 GMT
@ suedehead By that criteria, who exactly has 'achieved in the game' then? In that case, the argument basically comes down to 'well, Ash, Pilks & Ruddy haven't slated him!' surely? Be interesting to hear the real views of Le Fondre and Dicker as I've heard people state both that they rated him, and also that they hated him. Obviously no proof either way though unless you know better? Ash, Pilks, Gleeson, Ruddy, Hennessey, Rowe, Dickinson, McNulty, Baker... Pretty much anyone who went on to play at a level higher than County. I've not heard a single one of them say anything bad about him. I've never heard Dicker say anything either so I'd include him in my list too. I know Le Fondre didn't play much under him but was he critical of Gannon? Or was he critical because he didn't get a game?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2013 20:08:41 GMT
@ suedehead By that criteria, who exactly has 'achieved in the game' then? In that case, the argument basically comes down to 'well, Ash, Pilks & Ruddy haven't slated him!' surely? Be interesting to hear the real views of Le Fondre and Dicker as I've heard people state both that they rated him, and also that they hated him. Obviously no proof either way though unless you know better? Not sure whether we can also add Rodger Wylde here as well, as again I've heard people say both. @ Fred I've repeatedly said the job is almost impossible due to off field stuff, and what we really need at the moment is stability, and that the last thing we need right now is another change of manager. However, I've also given four alternative suggestions I feel would be safer bets than JG, one of whom has since become unavailable, (which rather shows the Southport board also feel Coleman is a better bet than JG of course!) Just because you don't agree with my suggestions doesn't mean I haven't been making them. IF there are new owners and they decide not to change the manager then that's fine, with the right backing I think Lordy can do the job. He is doing a better job than the last manager who was another disaster and, as far as I can see, came with similar credentials to the available alternatives you have suggested.
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Post by Jack on Dec 8, 2013 20:16:00 GMT
Jim didn't fail at Port Vale.
He was on a loser from the start. The fans, the players etc.. All loved Micky Adams and weren't prepared to do anything else after he left to go to Sheffield United.
No one would have done well there at that point.
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Post by CB1883 on Dec 8, 2013 20:18:30 GMT
Just to clear up one or two things about Jim's record since leaving us, Peterborough and Brighton offered him contracts, he left Motherwell because he refused to commit, people at those clubs could see his qualities. Port Vale was different and he was never going to win that one, it appeared at the time that Geoff Horsfield was popular with the players and when he went head to head with Jim he got the players on side and Jim didn't stand a chance. We all saw what he built here in his first spell but he didn't do it over night, in his second spell he did what he needed to to keep us up but the following year was about rebuilding and he wasn't allowed to complete the job. That's not me putting a spin on it but exactly how I see it, if I thought he wasn't the right man for the job there's no way I'd want him back but there seems to be a lot of rewriting history going on and that's unfair especially to someone who's served us so well. I think everyone apart from RB knows he was a success at Motherwell and Peterborough. It's easy to use the 'We were in the relegation places when he was sacked' excuse but I'd put everything I own on us staying up that season if Gannon wasn't stabbed in the back for not being a yes man. I'd also like to point out Gannon wouldn't have brought in the absolute shite like Cirak.
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Post by BWScarf on Dec 8, 2013 21:05:06 GMT
I think everyone apart from RB knows he was a success at Motherwell and Peterborough. It's easy to use the 'We were in the relegation places when he was sacked' excuse but I'd put everything I own on us staying up that season if Gannon wasn't stabbed in the back for not being a yes man. I'd also like to point out Gannon wouldn't have brought in the absolute shite like Cirak. This. We were in the relegation places, with a game in hand, having just lost to the side that went on to win the title. If Danny Hattersley's penalty had gone in that day, then it may have been a different story. We were only relegated by four points, and that's taking into account the absolute abject failure of the club's policy in having non-footballing people signing players because they had employed a manager who had no knowledge of the English game at this level, and only spoke very rudimentary English. I will never, as long as I live, be able to understand what on earth was going through Spencer Fearn's head when he allowed the chief executive to run amok in the way he did. There's plenty of conspiracy theories about what happened last season. There's plenty of things that went on at Stockport County for a fact, but they will never be published because there's no evidence that they actually happened. But the writing was on the wall for our club as soon as Jim Gannon was sacked. It set off a chain reaction of events which the former chairman and vice-chairman failed to grasp the importance of. Losing Jim Gannon was a fatal error for our survival hopes. Things weren't going well but in the circumstances they were never going to and they could and would have been turned around with the assistance of Help the Hatters. Snape and Fearn were well aware that Fitzy would have been forced to walk away if Jim Gannon was sacked, and Fitzy wasn't even consulted. That was a second fatal error, because his and Help the Hatters' efforts were bailing out the water that other individuals were pouring in. Once they went, the ship was always going to sink. Talk is cheap, really. Spencer Fearn can say a million times over that he let us down, and that he's sorry, and that Ryan is doing a top job. None of it changes anything though. If we can return good people to the club that know what needs to be done, then we can and will get back to where we used to be.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2013 10:01:10 GMT
Absobloodyexactly!
I don't really care if the new regime (and there needs to be a new one asap) doesn't include Gannon, despite the fact that I am convinced he is the best man available for the job, provided we turn things round.
The problem is, nobody has put an even remotely coherent case for anyone else, a couple of names have been mentioned who appear to be Bogiesque and that's not good enough for me.
It looks like a simple choice for a new owner, keep Lordy, take a chance on Gannon or take a chance on someone else.
Quite often new owners will keep the current incumbent without any real conviction and when they haven't won every game 6-0 they get rid, Lord deserves better than that.
We all know what we will get from Gannon so it's eyes wide open. Not all awkward people are self-employed or unemployed, plenty are successful employees because they are allowed to use their strengths and their weaknesses are managed.
Someone else might just be what we need but, as I keep saying, nobody has put a name forward with any conviction and each time it just looks like another negative 'anyone but Gannon' campaigner, a la snape.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2013 10:16:58 GMT
Even if those names appear to be 'Bogie-esque' (Obviously, I'd argue they aren't, with the knowledge of the local area being the key difference when dealing with a part time side), surely you should be making the same allowances for Bogie's failure from working under appalling conditions and with a crap board as you've made for JG?
Out of interest, would you also take Paul Simpson back?
A very good record at one club around 5-6 years ago, followed by utter failure at another club (albeit at a higher level, with greater expectations), before being screwed over by an incompetent board in his most recent job, having made some bad decisions on the way.
To me, that's a very similar overall record to JG, with the only difference being that the decent spell was at Carlisle, rather than with us.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2013 11:28:26 GMT
Is this topic still going?? What's the consensus. Oh not one person has changed their opinion and we are divided again. Entrenched views.
1 Has Jim caused this?2 Is County the only only hope of him getting a job in football? 3 Has he contributed significantly to our dramatic decline? 4 Did he really lose against Gillingham on purpose? 5 Does he have to continue his extreme my way management style? Five yes answers gives you a no but perhaps most significantly to question 5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2013 11:36:02 GMT
Even if those names appear to be 'Bogie-esque' (Obviously, I'd argue they aren't, with the knowledge of the local area being the key difference when dealing with a part time side), surely you should be making the same allowances for Bogie's failure from working under appalling conditions and with a crap board as you've made for JG? Out of interest, would you also take Paul Simpson back? A very good record at one club around 5-6 years ago, followed by utter failure at another club (albeit at a higher level, with greater expectations), before being screwed over by an incompetent board in his most recent job, having made some bad decisions on the way. To me, that's a very similar overall record to JG, with the only difference being that the decent spell was at Carlisle, rather than with us. It's an interesting question, I wanted Gannon back when they gave Simpson the job but I reconciled myself to the appointment on the basis that I would have preferred Simpson to Gannon when Gannon first came to County as a manager. My issue with Simpson was he was too negative. He may have been saying it how it was but to announce before the season starts that we are in a relegation battle after just being relegated was not the message to be sending to the fans and more importantly his players. Nice enough bloke though and frankly it wouldn't be the worst option if Gannon said no again, which is more than possible.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2013 11:56:15 GMT
Is this topic still going?? What's the consensus. Oh not one person has changed their opinion and we are divided again. Entrenched views. 1 Has Jim caused this?2 Is County the only only hope of him getting a job in football? 3 Has he contributed significantly to our dramatic decline? 4 Did he really lose against Gillingham on purpose? 5 Does he have to continue his extreme my way management style? Five yes answers gives you a no but perhaps most significantly to question 5 1. No, 2. No, 3. No, 4. Maybe? 5. No. Does 4 x No and a maybe = Yes? if he wasn't around and been the least unsuccessful manager of the last 5 years then we wouldn't be talking about him would we? Don't know but I very much doubt it. I suppose you could argue anybody involved since Elwood has contributed to the decline, significantly doesn't apply to most of them though. The Gillingham question is one of those conspiracy theories that seems to fit the scenario. I wouldn't change, but sometimes you need to go out of your comfort zone to achieve what you want and that can include being nice to idiots.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2013 12:19:02 GMT
The majority on here are so way off the mark with their comments on Jim's previous Manererial positions. The comments you do quote are all from the media and believe are correct. You forget that whenever Jim has left a club, he has never slated the club, a player or anyone associated with that club. So what if he wishes to form a consortium to save Stockport County, at least he cares and I am sure so will the group he is associated with! The current regime are taking the club nowhere and before long, the Club will become a Historical Statistic.
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Post by heatonhatter on Dec 9, 2013 12:20:56 GMT
You forget that whenever Jim has left a club, he has never slated the club, a player or anyone associated with that club. You're right, he tends to do that while he's still employed.
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