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Post by Philcounty on Apr 2, 2023 9:03:24 GMT
Rest of todays results making last night not look as bad now. Northampton draw with Stevenage and Carlisle are about to lose to Orient. Result of the day has to be Pools against Swindon though, Jennings bagging one late on to level and they go on to win it at the death! Jennings seems to have got his goalscoring touch back along with being involved in the game and putting in a shift. Since going there he has actually scored more than both stretton and olaofe has for us. Think its 2 in two games now and wonder if we were a bit too quick getting rid of him or is he just fanceing having one last challenge of his league career. 2 in 2 but he's scored 3 since joining. Interestingly, all of them have come after the 80 minute mark.
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Post by timberwolf on Apr 2, 2023 9:11:17 GMT
Seen him a couple of times for a full game and does look better to be fair than he did for us coming on for a late sub appearance. Works bloody hard, totally involved in the game and was a better signing for them than so far our two window signings have shown.
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Post by vicar on Apr 2, 2023 9:27:36 GMT
Just seen we top the division in paying extortionate amounts to agents, I'm generally very happy with how the club is being run but I really don't like this, I dislike agents they take a lot form the game and I'm not sure they put anything back in.
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Post by timberwolf on Apr 2, 2023 9:48:57 GMT
Just seen we top the division in paying extortionate amounts to agents, I'm generally very happy with how the club is being run but I really don't like this, I dislike agents they take a lot form the game and I'm not sure they put anything back in. Agree 100 per cent. Hate to think that part of my ST money i pay go to someone has unneccesary as them. Its all about the money again and how much can be screwed out of clubs and their fans.
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Post by Bredburyhatter on Apr 2, 2023 9:54:04 GMT
Just seen we top the division in paying extortionate amounts to agents, I'm generally very happy with how the club is being run but I really don't like this, I dislike agents they take a lot form the game and I'm not sure they put anything back in. Would we be able to get many of the players we have now if an agent wasn't involved? I think it's something we're going to have to just accept as we are splashing the cash and progressing through the leagues.
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Post by HTC on Apr 2, 2023 9:55:49 GMT
The thing that always confuses me with the football industry is why clubs pay agent fees, rather than the player.
In just about every other business, if you want someone to do something on your behalf, you pay them for their services, but in football, you the agent does something for you, and the other guy pays them for it.
It’s like me enlisting an accountant to make sure I’m using all the expense claims etc I’m entitled to to get a lower tax bill, and then getting HMRC to pay my accountant.
I just don’t get it.
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Post by Imposter on Apr 2, 2023 10:58:55 GMT
The thing that always confuses me with the football industry is why clubs pay agent fees, rather than the player. In just about every other business, if you want someone to do something on your behalf, you pay them for their services, but in football, you the agent does something for you, and the other guy pays them for it. It’s like me enlisting an accountant to make sure I’m using all the expense claims etc I’m entitled to to get a lower tax bill, and then getting HMRC to pay my accountant. I just don’t get it. It's more akin to a recruitment agency or consultant. Person A goes to agency B who secure him/her with a job with company C, and it's Company C who pay Agency B. Exactly the same in football. Somebody looking for (alternative) employment uses an agent and the employing party pays the agent.
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Post by The Real Exile on Apr 2, 2023 12:11:45 GMT
Employment agents charge extortionate prices in some cases 15 to 20 percent of an annual salary, I have no knowledge of what we pay said agents at County but a player on 3k a week might command say a 30k agent fee if it works the same as the 'real' world.
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Post by Stranded Hatter on Apr 2, 2023 12:48:34 GMT
Pretty sure wnm has been banging this drum all season and he was right. Damn right I have. People telling me that we’re not spending way more than the likes of Salford and Bradford when it was obvious to me we were and it’s been proven in these figures. Nearly double our nearest competitor tonight. With the money we’re spending we should have by far and away the best squad in the league and it’s very clear we don’t. We’ve paid more in agents fees, that’s not surprising since we did it last season as well. You were saying we were paying more in transfer fees when we weren’t. That was the only thing I ever questioned you on. We are not getting value for money, but that’s inevitable when you stick a big pair of pound signs on the front door. Just because we’re spending more than we probably should doesn’t guarantee anything.
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Post by Stranded Hatter on Apr 2, 2023 12:56:52 GMT
As requested!! So - the financial 'highlights' coming out of the annual accounts. These of course cover an NL season (year to Jun 22) There was a loss incurred of £4.9m (£93k a week, an increase from £50k a week the previous year ) - all funded by Stott. He's put in £9.1m in period Jan 20 - Jun 22. (And on this basis more than likely another £3.6m since then, and possibly more given the costs of being in the EFL) Income was £4.8m (according to Vaughan on COWS) meaning expenditure is £9.7m. Income is therefore less then 50% of exp. The Club in 2021/22 cost c£186k a week to run. In comparative terms income in 2020/21 was £2.1m, (and has thus increased by 128%) whilst expenditure was £4.5m (increase of 116%). Effectively the cost of running the Club has more than doubled. And that is hardly surprising given that the headcount over the year was 240 employees on average. For a business with a turnover of £4.8m this is frankly beyond any form of comprehension (it was 91 the year before). (From a personal perspective I ran a business turning over in excess of £400m with less than 3 times the number of employees). Without Stott or another benefactor, the operation is beyond unsustainable. Transfer fees paid in the year came to £367k while there were fees received of £118k. Others may wish to idrntify who these might be for. And, whilst not in the accounts,in the year to Jan 23 agents picked up £236k. The 53rd highest in English football. So in summary the Club is totally and utterly dependent on Stott writing a weekly cheque for £100k. If the property bubble bursts, and there are economic forecasters thinking that way, then he might have to tighten his belt with whatever that may mean. If it comes at some point to him moving on any future owner will have to have more than deep pockets ... to buy him out (possibly) but definitely to maintain the same scale of operation. From a personal perspective I recall being derided for backing an 'organic growth' approach when Stott came in. I have never favoured the 'purchase of success' route and nothing I see in these financial statements will shift me from that. Others will see it differently of course Does 240 employees include turnstile operators and any in house stewards on zero hour contracts? Because I can’t see any other justification for that many staff. For example one of the venues I work at insists on having all their technicians on payroll. As a result they’ll have hundreds of staff on paper but a majority of them will only be there on odd occasions. I’ve not been there for probably two thirds of a year at this point. If the 240 employees doesn’t count those (if they’re all agency staff for example) then that is an awfully high number of people.
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Post by desmond on Apr 2, 2023 13:01:55 GMT
How are your finances looking Pug? Interested to see the comparison. £2.3m loss on £5.6m turnover (up from £4.3m). £400k of ground and other improvements. Debt to Eagle investments increased by £2m. Now almost £12m.
The good news is our owners, Eagle Investments 2017 Ltd, have also filed their accounts. And they are worth some £17m, with £3m in the bank and a whopping £14m worth of investments! So we don’t need to panic just yet.
As LOFC use the small companies exemption, it is very difficult to know much about the position other than the headline figures. Most football clubs use this exemption
Kinda mind boggling that £7.9 million isn't enough to buy a team that absolutely walks it at a league 2 level. The amount of money in football is ridiculous.
⬆️ All of the above is quoted from others who Like this kind of stuff . Honestly goes way above my head , just interesting comments about spends . This is also last season & Spending increased a little on playing budget
Full financials i posted above
Pretty sure that Kieran Maguire tweeted a few days ago that Orients accumulated losses were £17m
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Post by hedleyverity on Apr 2, 2023 13:37:01 GMT
As requested!! So - the financial 'highlights' coming out of the annual accounts. These of course cover an NL season (year to Jun 22) There was a loss incurred of £4.9m (£93k a week, an increase from £50k a week the previous year ) - all funded by Stott. He's put in £9.1m in period Jan 20 - Jun 22. (And on this basis more than likely another £3.6m since then, and possibly more given the costs of being in the EFL) Income was £4.8m (according to Vaughan on COWS) meaning expenditure is £9.7m. Income is therefore less then 50% of exp. The Club in 2021/22 cost c£186k a week to run. In comparative terms income in 2020/21 was £2.1m, (and has thus increased by 128%) whilst expenditure was £4.5m (increase of 116%). Effectively the cost of running the Club has more than doubled. And that is hardly surprising given that the headcount over the year was 240 employees on average. For a business with a turnover of £4.8m this is frankly beyond any form of comprehension (it was 91 the year before). (From a personal perspective I ran a business turning over in excess of £400m with less than 3 times the number of employees). Without Stott or another benefactor, the operation is beyond unsustainable. Transfer fees paid in the year came to £367k while there were fees received of £118k. Others may wish to idrntify who these might be for. And, whilst not in the accounts,in the year to Jan 23 agents picked up £236k. The 53rd highest in English football. So in summary the Club is totally and utterly dependent on Stott writing a weekly cheque for £100k. If the property bubble bursts, and there are economic forecasters thinking that way, then he might have to tighten his belt with whatever that may mean. If it comes at some point to him moving on any future owner will have to have more than deep pockets ... to buy him out (possibly) but definitely to maintain the same scale of operation. From a personal perspective I recall being derided for backing an 'organic growth' approach when Stott came in. I have never favoured the 'purchase of success' route and nothing I see in these financial statements will shift me from that. Others will see it differently of course Does 240 employees include turnstile operators and any in house stewards on zero hour contracts? Because I can’t see any other justification for that many staff. For example one of the venues I work at insists on having all their technicians on payroll. As a result they’ll have hundreds of staff on paper but a majority of them will only be there on odd occasions. I’ve not been there for probably two thirds of a year at this point. If the 240 employees doesn’t count those (if they’re all agency staff for example) then that is an awfully high number of people. Must include all those, and the catering staff
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Post by wnm on Apr 2, 2023 15:49:16 GMT
Damn right I have. People telling me that we’re not spending way more than the likes of Salford and Bradford when it was obvious to me we were and it’s been proven in these figures. Nearly double our nearest competitor tonight. With the money we’re spending we should have by far and away the best squad in the league and it’s very clear we don’t. We’ve paid more in agents fees, that’s not surprising since we did it last season as well. You were saying we were paying more in transfer fees when we weren’t. That was the only thing I ever questioned you on. We are not getting value for money, but that’s inevitable when you stick a big pair of pound signs on the front door. Just because we’re spending more than we probably should doesn’t guarantee anything. If you’re doing it poorly and giving average L2 squad players, who sometimes don’t even get off the bench, more money than your rivals give their top earners then that’s not bad luck that’s bad business. If you’re paying double the amount of your next competitor on agents fees that’s bad business. If you’re interested in the likes of Tshimanga (before he joined Chesterfield) and Langstaff but you let them go to other non league teams that’s bad business. There are no guarantees but for the money we’re spending we should have a better squad.
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Post by Stranded Hatter on Apr 2, 2023 15:54:59 GMT
We’ve paid more in agents fees, that’s not surprising since we did it last season as well. You were saying we were paying more in transfer fees when we weren’t. That was the only thing I ever questioned you on. We are not getting value for money, but that’s inevitable when you stick a big pair of pound signs on the front door. Just because we’re spending more than we probably should doesn’t guarantee anything. If you’re doing it poorly and giving average L2 squad players, who sometimes don’t even get off the bench, more money than your rivals give their top earners then that’s not bad luck that’s bad business. If you’re paying double the amount of your next competitor on agents fees that’s bad business. If you’re interested in the likes of Tshimanga (before he joined Chesterfield) and Langstaff but you let them go to other non league teams that’s bad business. There are no guarantees but for the money we’re spending we should have a better squad. I think I probably agree with a lot of that. What I don’t agree with is that we should automatically be running away with it because we’ve got a big budget. Salford have had a big budget in this division for several years (almost certainly the biggest) and they just keep burning through managers and missing out year on year. I reckon if they’d had a bit more patience with a manager they’d already be a league one side.
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Post by wnm on Apr 2, 2023 16:24:48 GMT
If you’re doing it poorly and giving average L2 squad players, who sometimes don’t even get off the bench, more money than your rivals give their top earners then that’s not bad luck that’s bad business. If you’re paying double the amount of your next competitor on agents fees that’s bad business. If you’re interested in the likes of Tshimanga (before he joined Chesterfield) and Langstaff but you let them go to other non league teams that’s bad business. There are no guarantees but for the money we’re spending we should have a better squad. I think I probably agree with a lot of that. What I don’t agree with is that we should automatically be running away with it because we’ve got a big budget. Salford have had a big budget in this division for several years (almost certainly the biggest) and they just keep burning through managers and missing out year on year. I reckon if they’d had a bit more patience with a manager they’d already be a league one side. And we’ve all said for years what a shit show their recruitment has been. When I look at Wrexham’s squad I can see where the ridiculous amounts of money have gone. With us I just see a lot of average L2 players on way above average L2 money and that’s worrying.
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