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Post by hedleyverity on Nov 3, 2023 13:24:07 GMT
One of the best refs we've had in recent years I'm going to play devil's advocate and say she wasn't. There's actually been an improvement generally I think. She was ok, but I think people fawn a bit too much. She's about average, as are most refs at our level. Most refs will be about average, that’s how averages work, there’s not likely to be many who are exceptionally good or bad
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Post by Waldorf on Nov 3, 2023 13:53:45 GMT
I'm going to play devil's advocate and say she wasn't. There's actually been an improvement generally I think. She was ok, but I think people fawn a bit too much. She's about average, as are most refs at our level. Most refs will be about average, that’s how averages work, there’s not likely to be many who are exceptionally good or bad Well, that was exactly my point. The way some people reminisce, you'd think they'd watched the next Pierluigi Collina. She was average. Like most.
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Mozzer
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Post by Mozzer on Nov 3, 2023 14:07:04 GMT
I think she was better than average. She obviously stood out in one regard because she was female, but as Timberwolf suggests, I think we've seen enough female refs in recent years not to be so wowed by the novelty that we grant some sort of dispensation for her not making their shithouse right-back steal 5 yards at every throw in, or whatever. She did better than most we see and that makes her above average in my mind.
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Post by Waldorf on Nov 3, 2023 14:17:19 GMT
I think she was better than average. She obviously stood out in one regard because she was female, but as Timberwolf suggests, I think we've seen enough female refs in recent years not to be so wowed by the novelty that we grant some sort of dispensation for her not making their shithouse right-back steal 5 yards at every throw in, or whatever. She did better than most we see and that makes her above average in my mind. Did better in what regard though? What specifically made her above average? I'm certainly not saying she had a bad game, she definitely didn't, but genuinely don't recall what she did that puts her in the upper reaches of what is a good or bad referee. As I said earlier, I think the quality this season has been alright so far, in that I've not noticed them that much. Wouldn't say anyone has been great though.
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Mozzer
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Post by Mozzer on Nov 3, 2023 14:24:49 GMT
I think she was better than average. She obviously stood out in one regard because she was female, but as Timberwolf suggests, I think we've seen enough female refs in recent years not to be so wowed by the novelty that we grant some sort of dispensation for her not making their shithouse right-back steal 5 yards at every throw in, or whatever. She did better than most we see and that makes her above average in my mind. Did better in what regard though? What specifically made her above average? I'm certainly not saying she had a bad game, she definitely didn't, but genuinely don't recall what she did that puts her in the upper reaches of what is a good or bad referee. As I said earlier, I think the quality this season has been alright so far, in that I've not noticed them that much. Wouldn't say anyone has been great though. Most refs wind me up with something or other that's really blatantly wrong or weak. Not all refs (so I agree she's not head and shoulders better than all the rest), but enough that it is more normal than not. That might be unfair on them, but it's the standard by which 'average' can be judged (by me, for the purposes of this!). She didn't wind me up, therefore she did better than most. It's probably difficult to identify any ref as being outstanding, unless you put them in a really difficult situation which they then handle well, or if you see them repeatedly and they repeatedly do the job without any undue fuss or issue - a consistently solid ref is the ideal, I think.
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Post by malc on Nov 3, 2023 14:45:14 GMT
Most refs will be about average, that’s how averages work, there’s not likely to be many who are exceptionally good or bad Well, that was exactly my point. The way some people reminisce, you'd think they'd watched the next Pierluigi Collina. She was average. Like most. Pierluigi Collina actually wasn't that good. He just looked scary so no one argued with him but as a ref, he was no better than bang average.
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Post by Waldorf on Nov 3, 2023 14:59:34 GMT
Is it YB Miss The Point day?
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Post by hedleyverity on Nov 3, 2023 15:41:00 GMT
Most refs will be about average, that’s how averages work, there’s not likely to be many who are exceptionally good or bad Well, that was exactly my point. The way some people reminisce, you'd think they'd watched the next Pierluigi Collina. She was average. Like most. Fair enough, my one man campaign against the misuse of the word’ average’ in football is mis-directed. I thought she was pretty good, but probably only noticed because she’s a woman, I wouldn’t have a clue who the good or bad male refs we get are, I never remember any of them.
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Post by geordiehatter on Nov 3, 2023 16:54:16 GMT
I'd say she was one of the best we have had in recent seasons and the powers that be must agree and promoted her to the Championship list for this season. Likewise the male ref we had for the Bolton and Leicester home games also got promoted and has even refereed a few Premier League games recently. I'm another one who generally has zero recollection of referees after the game finishes, but I do remember this one- partly because of her gender I'm sure, but definitely for what I thought was an excellent refereeing performance. The detail I recall was how she seemed to be communicating with the players throughout, in a way that was authoritative but also respectful. A couple of times it looked like some dissent could bubble up and with a couple of words she just nipped it in the bud and we were on with the game.
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Post by porthatter on Nov 3, 2023 17:57:50 GMT
I'd say she was one of the best we have had in recent seasons and the powers that be must agree and promoted her to the Championship list for this season. Likewise the male ref we had for the Bolton and Leicester home games also got promoted and has even refereed a few Premier League games recently. I'm another one who generally has zero recollection of referees after the game finishes, but I do remember this one- partly because of her gender I'm sure, but definitely for what I thought was an excellent refereeing performance. The detail I recall was how she seemed to be communicating with the players throughout, in a way that was authoritative but also respectful. A couple of times it looked like some dissent could bubble up and with a couple of words she just nipped it in the bud and we were on with the game. I remember her allowing play to continue after several bits of play-acting by the other team and in the end they gave up doing that. I can’t remember any other ref at EP for many years (until this season following the new contact rules) doing likewise. It could be that she got less abuse due to her sex but she seemed to gain respect as the game went on.
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Post by mattyovrio on Nov 3, 2023 20:02:44 GMT
Did better in what regard though? What specifically made her above average? I'm certainly not saying she had a bad game, she definitely didn't, but genuinely don't recall what she did that puts her in the upper reaches of what is a good or bad referee. As I said earlier, I think the quality this season has been alright so far, in that I've not noticed them that much. Wouldn't say anyone has been great though. Most refs wind me up with something or other that's really blatantly wrong or weak. Not all refs (so I agree she's not head and shoulders better than all the rest), but enough that it is more normal than not. That might be unfair on them, but it's the standard by which 'average' can be judged (by me, for the purposes of this!). She didn't wind me up, therefore she did better than most. It's probably difficult to identify any ref as being outstanding, unless you put them in a really difficult situation which they then handle well, or if you see them repeatedly and they repeatedly do the job without any undue fuss or issue - a consistently solid ref is the ideal, I think. They are outstanding when the game finishes and nobody really remembers them. Obviously there is the odd game where they have to get right into it and handle it well, but good refs generally have the pulse of the game and handle the players well enough to avoid it getting to that point.
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Post by timberwolf on Nov 4, 2023 8:59:32 GMT
Did better in what regard though? What specifically made her above average? I'm certainly not saying she had a bad game, she definitely didn't, but genuinely don't recall what she did that puts her in the upper reaches of what is a good or bad referee. As I said earlier, I think the quality this season has been alright so far, in that I've not noticed them that much. Wouldn't say anyone has been great though. Most refs wind me up with something or other that's really blatantly wrong or weak. Not all refs (so I agree she's not head and shoulders better than all the rest), but enough that it is more normal than not. That might be unfair on them, but it's the standard by which 'average' can be judged (by me, for the purposes of this!). She didn't wind me up, therefore she did better than most. It's probably difficult to identify any ref as being outstanding, unless you put them in a really difficult situation which they then handle well, or if you see them repeatedly and they repeatedly do the job without any undue fuss or issue - a consistently solid ref is the ideal, I think. If you do not notice the ref you,ll find they have had a good game which was the case in that game. Thats the problem as if she had her once a season nightmare that we all get some would never stop thinking about it in their minds even though they might not post their thoughts.
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Post by timberwolf on Nov 4, 2023 9:03:36 GMT
I'm another one who generally has zero recollection of referees after the game finishes, but I do remember this one- partly because of her gender I'm sure, but definitely for what I thought was an excellent refereeing performance. The detail I recall was how she seemed to be communicating with the players throughout, in a way that was authoritative but also respectful. A couple of times it looked like some dissent could bubble up and with a couple of words she just nipped it in the bud and we were on with the game. Think being female can be a big help being good at her job. So many male referees now look and act the same that i call em the stepford refs. Its as if there is a sausage factory at the FA headquarters churn.ing them out season on season
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Post by Lincoln Hatter on Nov 4, 2023 9:12:11 GMT
I'm another one who generally has zero recollection of referees after the game finishes, but I do remember this one- partly because of her gender I'm sure, but definitely for what I thought was an excellent refereeing performance. The detail I recall was how she seemed to be communicating with the players throughout, in a way that was authoritative but also respectful. A couple of times it looked like some dissent could bubble up and with a couple of words she just nipped it in the bud and we were on with the game. Think being female can be a big help being good at her job. So many male referees now look and act the same that i call em the stepford refs. Its as if there is a sausage factory at the FA headquarters churn.ing them out season on season You’ve answered your own criticism of this yesterday there. That is exactly the reason why there should be publicity when a female or black male enjoys success in refereeing. If your complaint is they all look the same then it’s always going to be newsworthy when someone “breaks the mould” so to speak.
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Post by geordiehatter on Nov 4, 2023 10:06:45 GMT
I'm another one who generally has zero recollection of referees after the game finishes, but I do remember this one- partly because of her gender I'm sure, but definitely for what I thought was an excellent refereeing performance. The detail I recall was how she seemed to be communicating with the players throughout, in a way that was authoritative but also respectful. A couple of times it looked like some dissent could bubble up and with a couple of words she just nipped it in the bud and we were on with the game. Think being female can be a big help being good at her job. So many male referees now look and act the same that i call em the stepford refs. Its as if there is a sausage factory at the FA headquarters churn.ing them out season on season I do think that maybe being female seemed to help her in one way- not so much just the novelty factor, more that I think (and noticed during the game we're talking about) that players seemed (thankfully) less inclined to react in a confrontational way to a female. She still had to get the calls and the communication right though, otherwise that would have counted for little.
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