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Post by suedehead on Apr 16, 2024 7:56:27 GMT
It's all so very, very grim and the fact it's still used to point-score in football rivalries is so depressing. That could be any one of us if put into in the same badly-managed situation. This should be shown in schools. Daniel Gordon’s 2016 documentary about it all, it’s incredibly powerful. I watched it when it was on back then but haven’t been able to bring myself to go through it again. If you have a couple of hours and the mental fortitude for it, it’s well worth it. watchdocumentaries.com/hillsborough/
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Post by bigmartin on Apr 16, 2024 8:19:10 GMT
None of them are likeable. Klopp used to be alright, but he long ago turned into a typical, entitled, whiney PL boss. Boring and irritating in equal measure. With Klopp you just have to see how he behaves on various interviews to a question he doesn't like to find him instantly unlikable. "Sings when he's winning" doesn't he Klopp, I've noticed over time?
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Mozzer
Contributor
Posts: 1,306
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Post by Mozzer on Apr 16, 2024 8:31:33 GMT
Amongst many things, it remains an example of how 'The Establishment' works, for all those who think it's a bunch of lefty lawyers sipping lattes in Islington.
The strength of those who've fought for justice is incredible. As a bloody student in Liverpool in the early 90s I went to meetings of the Football Supporters' Association where relatives of those killed would talk about the pain of loss and the frustration and anger pursuing justice heaped on top of that. Along with the many depressing things about this country, one of them is fellow football fans who use this avoidable disaster as a stick with which to beat other fans. It's unbelievably crass and stupid on many levels. I've no great love for Liverpool FC in itself, but such things transcend club allegiances. Beyond the personal tragedies, this was about how football fans were treated by police, press and politicians before, during and afterwards.
Never forget.
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Post by scfc73 on Apr 16, 2024 8:38:46 GMT
It's all so very, very grim and the fact it's still used to point-score in football rivalries is so depressing. That could be any one of us if put into in the same badly-managed situation. What struck me at the time was that it could have been a lot more personal. I've got a lot of friends who follow our bigger neighbours & it could have just as easily been them in that situation. I'm glad it wasn't but I still can't watch or read anything to do with Hillsborough without tearing up, just a horrible heart breaking tragedy. It doesn't matter what your club rivalry is or what your generalisation of scousers is (something I don't subscribe to) football fans should share in their grief, especially fans who were attending games around that time because the reality is it could have happened to anyone.
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Post by suedehead on Apr 16, 2024 10:01:09 GMT
It's all so very, very grim and the fact it's still used to point-score in football rivalries is so depressing. That could be any one of us if put into in the same badly-managed situation. What struck me at the time was that it could have been a lot more personal. I've got a lot of friends who follow our bigger neighbours & it could have just as easily been them in that situation. I'm glad it wasn't but I still can't watch or read anything to do with Hillsborough without tearing up, just a horrible heart breaking tragedy. It doesn't matter what your club rivalry is or what your generalisation of scousers is (something I don't subscribe to) football fans should share in their grief, especially fans who were attending games around that time because the reality is it could have happened to anyone. Yep. Thinking about the actual event and what happened, it's all so familiar. Big swell of people at the ground, a bit of a rush to get in, old stadiums you aren't familiar with, just following whoever is in front of you and nudging forward. We've all done exactly that. I've never really gone in for the whole inter-city rivalry thing, you're essentially having a pop at someone exactly the same as you, probably shares your views, has a similar background etc just because they were born 30 miles away. Somebody you'd probably get on with every other day of the week. But then to hear people now trying to point score and take the piss, thinking they're funny, by singing about Hillsborough, it's just so soul destroying. I'd love to play Liverpool in the cup, it'd be an incredible spectacle. But you just know there'd be someone who lets us down by bringing it up.
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Post by bigmartin on Apr 16, 2024 11:57:50 GMT
What struck me at the time was that it could have been a lot more personal. I've got a lot of friends who follow our bigger neighbours & it could have just as easily been them in that situation. I'm glad it wasn't but I still can't watch or read anything to do with Hillsborough without tearing up, just a horrible heart breaking tragedy. It doesn't matter what your club rivalry is or what your generalisation of scousers is (something I don't subscribe to) football fans should share in their grief, especially fans who were attending games around that time because the reality is it could have happened to anyone. Yep. Thinking about the actual event and what happened, it's all so familiar. Big swell of people at the ground, a bit of a rush to get in, old stadiums you aren't familiar with, just following whoever is in front of you and nudging forward. We've all done exactly that. I've never really gone in for the whole inter-city rivalry thing, you're essentially having a pop at someone exactly the same as you, probably shares your views, has a similar background etc just because they were born 30 miles away. Somebody you'd probably get on with every other day of the week. But then to hear people now trying to point score and take the piss, thinking they're funny, by singing about Hillsborough, it's just so soul destroying. I'd love to play Liverpool in the cup, it'd be an incredible spectacle. But you just know there'd be someone who lets us down by bringing it up. Agree on everything said. I have a strangely large contingent of Liverpool supporting friends as a result of strange quirks in my life pushing me in cahoots with them. We mercilessly rip the piss out of each other for all manner of reasons. The idea of using Hillsborough is anathema to me and the idea of them using Munich (because I'm from a vaguely similar area to Manchester and therefore I'm a Man U fan even though they know I'm really not) the same. One of the guys I know, a client who's become a good friend over the years was at the game and explained to me how he and his mates were in an adjacent pen pleading for the cop(s) 'protecting' one of the locked gates, to open it. Said cop wouldn't. And they could literally see people dying in front of their eyes even as they were pointing and pleading. He's had to undergo grief counselling since. The statement he gave shortly after the events it turns out went missing. He had to re-write that statement four or five years back for the big inquiry and, if I understood what he explained to me correctly, had to secure legal moves to make the re-written statement admissible.
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Post by herbiedumplings on Apr 19, 2024 20:13:49 GMT
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Post by Nik on Apr 21, 2024 14:54:16 GMT
Bonkers tweets from the official Forest account
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Post by Duncan McOchin on Apr 22, 2024 10:08:59 GMT
The gates were opened once Liverpool started demanding an apology from the PGMOL, who then spinelessly gave in. The statement from Forest is pathetic, but that's the environment that's been allowed to fester.
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Post by sk8ballboy on Apr 22, 2024 11:01:47 GMT
I think Liverpool asked for the audio to be released which is exactly how it should be. These refs are definitely biased. Have you seen Michael Oliver went reffing in Abu Dhabi recently paid for by City's owners? And guess what, he's given City some scandalous decisions after his trip.
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Post by Barmy Blue Army on Apr 24, 2024 20:29:42 GMT
Like watching County vs Crewe and Tranmere. Every Everton setpiece looks destined for a goal.
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Post by atmosphere on Apr 24, 2024 21:17:08 GMT
More humiliation heaped on Klopp. Some are destined to go out heroes but most go out as losers. Klopp is not alone, he's in the majority with that.
1 league win in 9 seasons is it? He's let those divs up the 192 route off a treat. Overrated IMO.
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Post by mat1scfc on Apr 24, 2024 21:20:45 GMT
Should never of let it be known that he was leaving that early on in the season. All gone down hill since.
City will win the league. Don't know where they've got 2 games in hand on 1st,2nd and 4th.
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Post by Barmy Blue Army on Apr 24, 2024 21:33:11 GMT
More humiliation heaped on Klopp. Some are destined to go out heroes but most go out as losers. Klopp is not alone, he's in the majority with that. 1 league win in 9 seasons is it? He's let those divs up the 192 route off a treat. Overrated IMO. That's one way of looking at it but he also picked up a terrible Liverpool team, revolutionised them with good money, but not the money of City, United or Chelsea (that's tough just look at United now), and got them playing some of the most entertaining football in the league. His win percentage is 61% (Ferguson at United was 60%), he's come up against arguably the best team in PL in history, Pep's City, won the CL and come 2nd in it to RM twice, then won everything else there is in England and come second in the league with 97 points from 38 games. I get it that some don't like his personality and he gets away with a bit more in the media/with refs because of his jovial character, but he's a great manager - just ask any Liverpool fan.
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Post by Barmy Blue Army on Apr 24, 2024 21:39:31 GMT
Should never of let it be known that he was leaving that early on in the season. All gone down hill since. City will win the league. Don't know where they've got 2 games in hand on 1st,2nd and 4th. Everyone's saying that and it's a cop out for me. He announced he was going in January and Liverpool won the EFL Cup after that and went top of the league IRC. The reality is this Liverpool side isn't as good as City or Arsenal imo. Arsenal are certainly better defensively and better at scoring goals with Liverpool's forwards injured or out of form. City have the most depth, best manager (probably) and a better attack. City play tomorrow and the other game in hand comes from the FA Cup SF.
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