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Post by Stranded Hatter on Jun 22, 2024 20:08:41 GMT
You said 5% is the best and stated it as fact? I just wanted to know where you got that information from. Yes I am stating it as fact, one based on experience, if I am wrong and out of touch in the commercial mortgage sector then I would be perfectly happy to say I am wrong… and I would love to hear where you would get better commercial mortgage rates for lower league football clubs to develop a ground they don’t own.. I get where you’re coming from with a lot of this Dave, but every time you mention that we don’t own the ground I think “but that’s a good thing”. It means that the ground cannot be leveraged against debt. It means that we can’t be in a situation where a third party bad actor can come in and take ownership of EP and turf us out. The council owning it and us having a long term lease (whenever that gets signed) is an ideal scenario.
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Post by David Schofield on Jun 22, 2024 20:14:40 GMT
Yes I am stating it as fact, one based on experience, if I am wrong and out of touch in the commercial mortgage sector then I would be perfectly happy to say I am wrong… and I would love to hear where you would get better commercial mortgage rates for lower league football clubs to develop a ground they don’t own.. I get where you’re coming from with a lot of this Dave, but every time you mention that we don’t own the ground I think “but that’s a good thing”. It means that the ground cannot be leveraged against debt. It means that we can’t be in a situation where a third party bad actor can come in and take ownership of EP and turf us out. The council owning it and us having a long term lease (whenever that gets signed) is an ideal scenario. I agree with a lot of that
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Post by ancienthatter on Jun 22, 2024 20:19:29 GMT
I'm at the point where football isn't financially viable, County aren't financially viable currently, spending double income roughly?, players wages are absolutely nuts. Mark Stott does seem alright, I think fans as a whole seem completely blase about how volatile property can be, much bigger outfits than his have gone tits up. I know accountants can make the figures say whatever is required, but Vita didn't look that profitable (to a complete lay person) last time I looked. I think the whole idea that we'll be more sustainable the higher we go doesn't bear any relation to reality. So basically I'm just enjoying the moment in a nothing I do will make a difference either way kind of way. Your last sentence sums it up really. I think there’s also a case of this is as good as it’s going to get. We’re not going to ever get an owner as trustworthy and with as deep pockets as this, so it’s now or never. I think you and Hedleyverity are spot on. It’s out of our control and we just need to enjoy the ride as long as it lasts. I’m not about to join a campaign to stop progress.
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Post by Stranded Hatter on Jun 22, 2024 20:37:47 GMT
Your last sentence sums it up really. I think there’s also a case of this is as good as it’s going to get. We’re not going to ever get an owner as trustworthy and with as deep pockets as this, so it’s now or never. I think you and Hedleyverity are spot on. It’s out of our control and we just need to enjoy the ride as long as it lasts. I’m not about to join a campaign to stop progress. I’m sort of in a similar boat. I’m more giddy about EP getting done up than I am about the prospect of getting back to the Championship. And while I disagree with some of Dave Schofield’s takes on it I do think it’s right that somebody is asking these sorts of questions.
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Post by AmericanHatter on Jun 23, 2024 3:26:22 GMT
Mel Morris was an egotistical moron, Stott is far from that. He has been prudent so far in his spending and not went overboard, don't see that changing of all a sudden. Again, he does not seem the type to go totally in debt just to see us succeed. And as far as financial transparency goes, he does not have to let the fans know where majority of his money comes from tbh. I’m very keen on the new plans, the progression of the club etc but we haven’t been prudent with our spending. We’re a big financial pit purely propped up by one man’s good will now. Fair enough. Just again think Stott is not gonna get too overboard with spending and mess up the good vibes we have going right now. If that means perhaps lower the spending next season or two, then so be it. While that may make promotion to the Championship a bit harder(If we don't somehow do it this season) doesn't mean we can't still do it. With the signings we have made for the future and with DC in charge, we will be fine either way.
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Post by stevie57 on Jun 23, 2024 7:16:17 GMT
Yes I am stating it as fact, one based on experience, if I am wrong and out of touch in the commercial mortgage sector then I would be perfectly happy to say I am wrong… and I would love to hear where you would get better commercial mortgage rates for lower league football clubs to develop a ground they don’t own.. I get where you’re coming from with a lot of this Dave, but every time you mention that we don’t own the ground I think “but that’s a good thing”. It means that the ground cannot be leveraged against debt. It means that we can’t be in a situation where a third party bad actor can come in and take ownership of EP and turf us out. The council owning it and us having a long term lease (whenever that gets signed) is an ideal scenario. But is it an ‘…ideal scenario’ ? If it was, surely it would have been signed by now.
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Post by CB1883 on Jun 23, 2024 7:26:17 GMT
I get where you’re coming from with a lot of this Dave, but every time you mention that we don’t own the ground I think “but that’s a good thing”. It means that the ground cannot be leveraged against debt. It means that we can’t be in a situation where a third party bad actor can come in and take ownership of EP and turf us out. The council owning it and us having a long term lease (whenever that gets signed) is an ideal scenario. But is it an ‘…ideal scenario’ ? If it was, surely it would have been signed by now. The planning applications itself mentions it’s due to be signed in the summer of 2024. Doesn’t look like it’s an empty promise.
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Post by stockytwo on Jun 23, 2024 8:39:53 GMT
It is a bizarre thing when you think about it. Stott uses outside financing purely in the clubs name to massively upgrade something that neither the club nor any one of his companies actually own.
If it goes tits up then we’re toast as a club and the council are left owning a fantastic championship level stadium where there’s zero possibility of it being knocked down for housing or anything else. This would secure Edgeley Parks future but risks Stockport County’s future - it’s a hard one to get your head around. Personally I can’t see why he’d bother with all the infrastructure stuff if he was just using us as a play thing. Once this is built the land is even more certain to only to be used for football so the Council may as well sell it to the club.
We’ve just got to hope that Stott has our interests at heart because there’s not much we can do really. He’s the only person who’s been interested in putting serious money into us for years so may as well sit back and enjoy the ride. Football is completely f*cked as a sport where clubs are run as businesses anyway, most of them are horrifically reliant on owners, we’ve just become yet another one of them. The key thing here will be getting the ground (worth a lot to us but valueless to the council without a football team in there) back into our ownership, that will at least give us an asset that gives us value to future owners in a post Stott era where we are probs saddled with a ton of debt.
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Post by CB1883 on Jun 23, 2024 10:03:56 GMT
It is a bizarre thing when you think about it. Stott uses outside financing purely in the clubs name to massively upgrade something that neither the club nor any one of his companies actually own. If it goes tits up then we’re toast as a club and the council are left owning a fantastic championship level stadium where there’s zero possibility of it being knocked down for housing or anything else. This would secure Edgeley Parks future but risks Stockport County’s future - it’s a hard one to get your head around. Personally I can’t see why he’d bother with all the infrastructure stuff if he was just using us as a play thing. Once this is built the land is even more certain to only to be used for football so the Council may as well sell it to the club. We’ve just got to hope that Stott has our interests at heart because there’s not much we can do really. He’s the only person who’s been interested in putting serious money into us for years so may as well sit back and enjoy the ride. Football is completely f*cked as a sport where clubs are run as businesses anyway, most of them are horrifically reliant on owners, we’ve just become yet another one of them. The key thing here will be getting the ground (worth a lot to us but valueless to the council without a football team in there) back into our ownership, that will at least give us an asset that gives us value to future owners in a post Stott era where we are probs saddled with a ton of debt. I know it’s only been 4 years since the takeover but he’s not given us any reasons whatsoever to doubt or question his intentions. Understandably there’s still people asking questions as we’ve been stung so many times before but the level of thought and planning in what we’ve seen so far has been beyond impressive. The ground development is behind the initial timescale but that was down to increased costs on construction and materials. We haven’t jumped in feet first and hoped for the best, instead we waited until we’d made League One and then went for it. In hindsight, the risk would’ve been worth it because if we had the new Railway End completed in time for this coming season we’d have sold more season tickets, have the ability to give a bigger away allocation and pushed our average attendances up again.
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Post by Stranded Hatter on Jun 23, 2024 11:49:37 GMT
I get where you’re coming from with a lot of this Dave, but every time you mention that we don’t own the ground I think “but that’s a good thing”. It means that the ground cannot be leveraged against debt. It means that we can’t be in a situation where a third party bad actor can come in and take ownership of EP and turf us out. The council owning it and us having a long term lease (whenever that gets signed) is an ideal scenario. But is it an ‘…ideal scenario’ ? If it was, surely it would have been signed by now. In terms of protecting the ground as our home, yes.
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Post by Stranded Hatter on Jun 23, 2024 11:51:30 GMT
I’m very keen on the new plans, the progression of the club etc but we haven’t been prudent with our spending. We’re a big financial pit purely propped up by one man’s good will now. Fair enough. Just again think Stott is not gonna get too overboard with spending and mess up the good vibes we have going right now. If that means perhaps lower the spending next season or two, then so be it. While that may make promotion to the Championship a bit harder(If we don't somehow do it this season) doesn't mean we can't still do it. With the signings we have made for the future and with DC in charge, we will be fine either way. “If we don't somehow do it this season” It is more likely that we don’t go up this season than we do.
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Post by AmericanHatter on Jun 23, 2024 14:39:23 GMT
Fair enough. Just again think Stott is not gonna get too overboard with spending and mess up the good vibes we have going right now. If that means perhaps lower the spending next season or two, then so be it. While that may make promotion to the Championship a bit harder(If we don't somehow do it this season) doesn't mean we can't still do it. With the signings we have made for the future and with DC in charge, we will be fine either way. “If we don't somehow do it this season” It is more likely that we don’t go up this season than we do. No doubt my friend as I do think the main goal this season is to finish top 10, though others may be content with something lower than that. Regardless, anything is possible, but realistically yes gonna be hard to do so this season. Teams like Brum, Rotherham, Huddersfield, etc still, for now at least, have a better chance.
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Post by mattyovrio on Jun 23, 2024 16:32:09 GMT
“If we don't somehow do it this season” It is more likely that we don’t go up this season than we do. No doubt my friend as I do think the main goal this season is to finish top 10, though others may be content with something lower than that. Regardless, anything is possible, but realistically yes gonna be hard to do so this season. Teams like Brum, Rotherham, Huddersfield, etc still, for now at least, have a better chance. I think Stott will be wanting/expecting no lower than 6, although with the big turnover of key players to move towards sustainability I am sure he will be patient of that doesn’t Come about.
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Post by stevie57 on Jun 23, 2024 18:06:18 GMT
But is it an ‘…ideal scenario’ ? If it was, surely it would have been signed by now. In terms of protecting the ground as our home, yes. This is what I am questioning; I’ve had personal experience of a council selling off school land, pocketing the vast majority of the money raised, giving the school only a fraction of the value, then allowing a load of big houses to be developed on the site. Councils have a terrible record as regards selling off school playing fields, and I think it’s right to question the delay in signing this lease, and if it is dependent on getting the planning permission, then that is a concern. In short, I’m not convinced that the Council (a variable feast at the best of times) is the best long-term protector of Edgeley Park, and as Gateshead found with their Council over their lease and the consequent removal from the NL play-offs last season, you cannot rely on them when needed - in short, the Council as leaseholder did Gateshead no favours whatsoever.
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Post by timberwolf on Jun 24, 2024 7:03:29 GMT
A modern enlarged EP will b around for the life of the average fan and will come off. Players come and go and even Ben has been with us only a short period of time when even that is compared to the CE present lifespan.
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