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Post by The Real Exile on Sept 1, 2024 20:36:26 GMT
People are really getting angry about the mere suggestion that the wealthy are going to have to contribute a bit more, it's mental, Starmer's approval ratings have plummeted because he’s trying to clear this mess up. I have to be honest. I'm tired of it already and we're only a couple of months in. Get the Tories back in. It's what people clearly want. Let the masses starve, freeze and get financially vandalised again. f*cking idiots. I've reached a point of complete insouciance as to what happens to the people in this hopeless shithole country. They have made an unpopular choice removing the Pensioners fuel allowance *for some, very easy for the likes of the Express and Mail to pile in at every opportunity on the back of that. I don't count the beans but wouldn't it have been better to take that money from those earning millions? Of course then there would be the bleating that the world will end because all the big earners will leave 🙄
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Post by bigmartin on Sept 1, 2024 20:54:44 GMT
I have to be honest. I'm tired of it already and we're only a couple of months in. Get the Tories back in. It's what people clearly want. Let the masses starve, freeze and get financially vandalised again. f*cking idiots. I've reached a point of complete insouciance as to what happens to the people in this hopeless shithole country. They have made an unpopular choice removing the Pensioners fuel allowance *for some, very easy for the likes of the Express and Mail to pile in at every opportunity on the back of that. I don't count the beans but wouldn't it have been better to take that money from those earning millions? Of course then there would be the bleating that the world will end because all the big earners will leave 🙄 I took this decision to be indicative as to how badly the finances are f*cked.
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Post by The Real Exile on Sept 1, 2024 20:58:59 GMT
They have made an unpopular choice removing the Pensioners fuel allowance *for some, very easy for the likes of the Express and Mail to pile in at every opportunity on the back of that. I don't count the beans but wouldn't it have been better to take that money from those earning millions? Of course then there would be the bleating that the world will end because all the big earners will leave 🙄 I took this decision to be indicative as to how badly the finances are f*cked. I can't say it is easy, but a huge chunk has gone in deserved public sector pay rises but are they more deserving than a pensioner just above the breadline, really does show how messed up things are when those amongst the less well off are targets, has to be a better way.
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Mozzer
Contributor
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Post by Mozzer on Sept 1, 2024 21:04:24 GMT
I do think it's an error though. They need to understand they're going to get hammered whatever they do. So if you remove the allowance in its current form, you're freezing granny to death. But if you up the taxes for the richest, you're engaging in the politics of envy and trying to stifle the best this country has to offer. Both are nonsense, but either will do if you're going to attack them. So why not have a go at the least vulnerable and let the media proprietors squeal? And tell the country you had to choose between freezing granny to death or rich people wondering if they can afford to go out for fondue every night on their second skiing holiday of the year in Gstaad? If people still think they're coming for them, there's nothing more they can do.
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Post by nelly on Sept 1, 2024 21:26:35 GMT
I took this decision to be indicative as to how badly the finances are f*cked. I can't say it is easy, but a huge chunk has gone in deserved public sector pay rises but are they more deserving than a pensioner just above the breadline, really does show how messed up things are when those amongst the less well off are targets, has to be a better way. Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't pensioner's who get pension credit still get winter fuel allowance ? They usually get pension credit for a good reason. ie serious illness, poverty, disability etc.
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Post by Stranded Hatter on Sept 1, 2024 21:30:24 GMT
I have noticed that some friends/work colleagues have suddenly started talking politics in recent months, and slagging off Starmer at every chance, including him banning smoking outside to allowing 'the boat people' into the country... They are actually starting to pee me off, as it's though the last government didn't exist, and helped cause many of the issues that Labour are trying to sort out. I'm not one for big political debates, but wish these people would start looking at the bigger picture... as well, as the odd fact or two!! Sunak had proposed a rolling programme which would completely ban smoking, I can't recall the details, it was to be introduced by age group and increasing until nobody could smoke. It was only going to increase in line with the age group it started with. So anyone who can smoke now will be able to until the day they drop dead. Provided they can get tobacco products
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Post by Stranded Hatter on Sept 1, 2024 21:33:26 GMT
I do wonder how much means testing the winter fuel allowance will save vs cost of administrating said means testing.
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Post by The Real Exile on Sept 1, 2024 21:46:44 GMT
I can't say it is easy, but a huge chunk has gone in deserved public sector pay rises but are they more deserving than a pensioner just above the breadline, really does show how messed up things are when those amongst the less well off are targets, has to be a better way. Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't pensioner's who get pension credit still get winter fuel allowance ? They usually get pension credit for a good reason. ie serious illness, poverty, disability etc. Correct, I don't have the exact figures but those who miss out on it by having paid a full stamp are hardly rich though.
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Post by bigmartin on Sept 1, 2024 22:21:42 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't pensioner's who get pension credit still get winter fuel allowance ? They usually get pension credit for a good reason. ie serious illness, poverty, disability etc. Correct, I don't have the exact figures but those who miss out on it by having paid a full stamp are hardly rich though. It's the richest demographic though isn't it? And there's an argument amongst some other demographics to say that it's the demographic that has shown the least empathy for the impact of their choices on other demographics. And also a demographic who, speaking generally, has shunned paying higher taxes but conversely always demanded pensions far in excess of what the country can afford to pay. There's a lot of chickens coming home to roost I'm afraid. There was always, at some point, going to be a reckoning in terms of the ultimate repercussions of people in this country's choices around their vote, taxation and priorities made by convening Governments when in control. Pensioners who need it should be helped, no question. But there's a significant percentage of Pensioners who simply don't need it (but will always take it).
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Post by The Real Exile on Sept 1, 2024 22:38:22 GMT
Correct, I don't have the exact figures but those who miss out on it by having paid a full stamp are hardly rich though. It's the richest demographic though isn't it? And there's an argument amongst some other demographics to say that it's the demographic that has shown the least empathy for the impact of their choices on other demographics. And also a demographic who, speaking generally, has shunned paying higher taxes but conversely always demanded pensions far in excess of what the country can afford to pay. There's a lot of chickens coming home to roost I'm afraid. There was always, at some point, going to be a reckoning in terms of the ultimate repercussions of people in this country's choices around their vote, taxation and priorities made by convening Governments when in control. Pensioners who need it should be helped, no question. But there's a significant percentage of Pensioners who simply don't need it (but will always take it). Sorry not having that someone who paid full NI to get a fiver a week more than someone on pension credit deserves to lose the fuel allowance, how does that make them rich?? I get it for those with significant private income but they have got this wrong as things stand.
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Post by bigmartin on Sept 1, 2024 22:56:49 GMT
It's the richest demographic though isn't it? And there's an argument amongst some other demographics to say that it's the demographic that has shown the least empathy for the impact of their choices on other demographics. And also a demographic who, speaking generally, has shunned paying higher taxes but conversely always demanded pensions far in excess of what the country can afford to pay. There's a lot of chickens coming home to roost I'm afraid. There was always, at some point, going to be a reckoning in terms of the ultimate repercussions of people in this country's choices around their vote, taxation and priorities made by convening Governments when in control. Pensioners who need it should be helped, no question. But there's a significant percentage of Pensioners who simply don't need it (but will always take it). Sorry not having that someone who paid full NI to get a fiver a week more than someone on pension credit deserves to lose the fuel allowance, how does that make them rich?? I get it for those with significant private income but they have got this wrong as things stand. I've not said they're all rich. I've said it's statistically the richest demographic. My ex's parents always had very unextraordinary jobs. He a postman. She worked on the production line at Walls. They were bloody loaded when they popped their clogs. Cruise every year. Sat on property. They were the norm rather than the exception. The country and Government have really looked after that generation over the years and they've done really well. Their grandson works 40 hours per week at Boohoo, can't afford to get on the property ladder. Gets the square root of f*ck all out of this Government. Yet his taxes are expected to fund £300 payouts for extraordinarily privileged pensioners. I don't see a fairness in that. I totally accept that there are exceptions and help those who need it by all means. But we need to stop throwing money we can't afford at people who don't need it at a time when there are lots of people really struggling.
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Post by The Real Exile on Sept 1, 2024 23:04:41 GMT
Sorry not having that someone who paid full NI to get a fiver a week more than someone on pension credit deserves to lose the fuel allowance, how does that make them rich?? I get it for those with significant private income but they have got this wrong as things stand. I've not said they're all rich. I've said it's statistically the richest demographic. Help those who need it. But we need to stop throwing money we can't afford at people who don't need it at a time when there are lots of people really struggling. Where to draw the line? should a pensioner with say 11k state pension plus a 4k a year pot they paid in to all their lives lose out for instance ? My point was surely there are wealthier targets out there.
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Post by bigmartin on Sept 1, 2024 23:11:01 GMT
I've not said they're all rich. I've said it's statistically the richest demographic. Help those who need it. But we need to stop throwing money we can't afford at people who don't need it at a time when there are lots of people really struggling. Where to draw the line? should a pensioner with say 11k state pension plus a 4k a year pot they paid in to all their lives lose out for instance ? My point was surely there are wealthier targets out there. Well they can't go after the wealthier targets can they, because the entire country f*cking melts down over it apparently. I don't know the solution. I just don't think the overwhelming majority of pensioners in 2024 are anywhere near as desperate as is made out. If some are, then help them by all means. If someone can come on here and persuade me that I've got this entirely wrong and that the demographic in question are totally f*cked, and really struggling chronically financially, then I'm open to having the error of my ways pointed out. But it's just not my experience at all. Every Pensioner on here and the other board seem to live in Spain, or seem to be biting their fingernails to the quick about their mansions being taxed when they hand them on to their descendents. I may be slightly joking here...
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Post by Stranded Hatter on Sept 1, 2024 23:19:08 GMT
Where to draw the line? should a pensioner with say 11k state pension plus a 4k a year pot they paid in to all their lives lose out for instance ? My point was surely there are wealthier targets out there. Well they can't go after the wealthier targets can they, because the entire country f*cking melts down over it apparently. I don't know the solution. I just don't think the overwhelming majority of pensioners in 2024 are anywhere near as desperate as is made out. If some are, then help them by all means. If someone can come on here and persuade me that I've got this entirely wrong and that the demographic in question are totally f*cked, and really struggling chronically financially, then I'm open to having the error of my ways pointed out. But it's just not my experience at all. I think that the point is that while the demographic is wealthy as f*ck, there are some who aren’t on pension credits who are still pretty stuck. I have no idea what the cut offs are with Labour’s means testing of winter fuel allowance. Is it based on household income or each initial pensioner, does it taper off once a certain amount of income is reached (at say 25p reduction for every £1 earned above a certain line) or is it a hard cut off. If it’s the latter that can really seriously harm some people who are only just getting by as it is. And as I’m always worried about with these things, once they’re taken away from the super wealthy generation that is already there, they won’t come back when the next generation comes through who has a lot less. It does feel, to an extent, that my generation keeps missing out on stuff those that came before us got, and it’ll be even worse for the zoomers after us. It just feels like yet another step backwards, everything just getting worse. As I said elsewhere I’d like to know how much it’ll save means testing it v cost of implementing said means testing. The whole point of universal benefits is that they cost less to implement and those who don’t need it will end up paying most of it back through extra taxation anyway.
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Post by The Real Exile on Sept 1, 2024 23:20:06 GMT
Where to draw the line? should a pensioner with say 11k state pension plus a 4k a year pot they paid in to all their lives lose out for instance ? My point was surely there are wealthier targets out there. Well they can't go after the wealthier targets can they, because the entire country f*cking melts down over it apparently. I don't know the solution. I just don't think the overwhelming majority of pensioners in 2024 are anywhere near as desperate as is made out. If some are, then help them by all means. If someone can come on here and persuade me that I've got this entirely wrong and that the demographic in question are totally f*cked, and really struggling chronically financially, then I'm open to having the error of my ways pointed out. But it's just not my experience at all. We agree about the wealthier targets. I don't disagree about the well off pensioners either, all about personal experience I think. My Grandparents worked all their lives, My Nanna a carer for the disabled and Grandad after the SAS a labourer, they had a tiny bit in private pensions (12 and 18 quid a month each) but they never could afford their own house and were certainly not minted.
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