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Post by herbiedumplings on May 3, 2024 14:30:13 GMT
In my opinion the last General election result wasn’t about Corbyn or Johnson it was simply a rerun of the Brexit vote… the Tories were clear, Labour were not Lot of ifs here but this is my theory, if Corbyn had; • Unequivocally accepted Brexit • Formally backed an EEA type arrangement whereby we leave the EU but remain part of the Single Market and Customs Union • Offered a 2nd referendum on that arrangement “yes or no” With a follow up of • If no wins then - do you wish to to Remain or Leave Without A Deal? He may have cut Johnson off at the bollocks Yeah, agree with a lot of that, although I think the 2nd referendum talk should have been blown out of the water. It was a stupid vote, and gave a stupid result, which will cost the country for decades. But like it or not, the referendum was won by Leave. All the talk of a second referendum basically gave a lot of people for whom this was their first political "win" the message that their win didn't count. People were conned, yes, not least by all the Leavers who said it wouldn't mean us leaving the single market/customs union. But essentially saying that "we don't like the result so we'll run it again until we get a result we do like" was an awful look, and it's not surprising that Johnson's "get Brexit done" cobblers cut through. The referendum was lost and we had to leave. What should have happened was getting the best deal possible - the one that Rees-Mogg, Farage, Hannan and the rest of them promised. What did happen - and it's due in large part to the FBPE-ers and their contortions in trying to prove a second vote would have been "democratic" - was Johnson giving us a diamond-hard Brexit that absolutely no one had said was an option. The only reason JRM promised a “Moon on a Stick” Brexit was because leaving the EU (under any circumstances) would make Somerset Capital a loooooooot of money. A soft Brexit was never going to happen, which is why the Eurosceptics weren’t exactly lining up to take over after Cameron resigned. But JRM being able to line his pockets more than compensated for any personal inconvenience.
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Post by Henry Pratt on May 3, 2024 14:34:30 GMT
Yeah, agree with a lot of that, although I think the 2nd referendum talk should have been blown out of the water. It was a stupid vote, and gave a stupid result, which will cost the country for decades. But like it or not, the referendum was won by Leave. All the talk of a second referendum basically gave a lot of people for whom this was their first political "win" the message that their win didn't count. People were conned, yes, not least by all the Leavers who said it wouldn't mean us leaving the single market/customs union. But essentially saying that "we don't like the result so we'll run it again until we get a result we do like" was an awful look, and it's not surprising that Johnson's "get Brexit done" cobblers cut through. The referendum was lost and we had to leave. What should have happened was getting the best deal possible - the one that Rees-Mogg, Farage, Hannan and the rest of them promised. What did happen - and it's due in large part to the FBPE-ers and their contortions in trying to prove a second vote would have been "democratic" - was Johnson giving us a diamond-hard Brexit that absolutely no one had said was an option. The only reason JRM promised a “Moon on a Stick” Brexit was because it would make Somerset Capital a loooooooot of money. It was never going to happen, but lining his pockets received more than compensated for any personal inconvenience. Yeah, there were lots of reasons for the lies they told. Weren't some tax laws imminent also, that could have hurt his investments? Cosplaying c*nt that he is. Also, there were claims that Farage told lies that Remain had won so that he could short sterling on Brexit night. He denied it of course <JimmyHill.jpg>
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Post by herbiedumplings on May 3, 2024 14:44:28 GMT
The only reason JRM promised a “Moon on a Stick” Brexit was because it would make Somerset Capital a loooooooot of money. It was never going to happen, but lining his pockets received more than compensated for any personal inconvenience. Yeah, there were lots of reasons for the lies they told. Weren't some tax laws imminent also, that could have hurt his investments? Cosplaying c*nt that he is. Also, there were claims that Farage told lies that Remain had won so that he could short sterling on Brexit night. He denied it of course <JimmyHill.jpg> Something to do with disclosing money held offshore IIRC. Which is something a Brexiteer would never do because Britain’s best at eeeevvvveeeerrrryyyything and doesn’t need to do business with foreign countries. Obvs.
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Post by vicar on May 3, 2024 15:00:48 GMT
Labour did even worse in Scotland. In my opinion the last General election result wasn’t about Corbyn or Johnson it was simply a rerun of the Brexit vote… the Tories were clear, Labour were not Lot of ifs here but this is my theory, if Corbyn had; • Unequivocally accepted Brexit • Formally backed an EEA type arrangement whereby we leave the EU but remain part of the Single Market and Customs Union • Offered a 2nd referendum on that arrangement “yes or no” With a follow up of • If no wins then - do you wish to to Remain or Leave Without A Deal? He may have cut Johnson off at the bollocks I think Johnson and Corbyn were major factors, people liked Johnson and believed all the tabloid tripe about Corbyn, the tabloids proved you could get the public to distrust a decent honest man and to put their trust in someone who already had a history of lies and deceit.
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Post by hedleyverity on May 3, 2024 15:28:25 GMT
Talking of people who shouldn't be within a million miles of power, the Tees Valley mayoral election, bloody hell.
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Post by Stranded Hatter on May 3, 2024 15:47:37 GMT
Labour did even worse in Scotland. In my opinion the last General election result wasn’t about Corbyn or Johnson it was simply a rerun of the Brexit vote… the Tories were clear, Labour were not Lot of ifs here but this is my theory, if Corbyn had; • Unequivocally accepted Brexit • Formally backed an EEA type arrangement whereby we leave the EU but remain part of the Single Market and Customs Union • Offered a 2nd referendum on that arrangement “yes or no” With a follow up of • If no wins then - do you wish to to Remain or Leave Without A Deal? He may have cut Johnson off at the bollocks I think he’d have been willing to do something like that. But there was no way the PLP were going to allow it. I don’t want to get into the weeds on Corbyn as leader because I still firmly believe the same general policies in a more media friendly package would have won power in 2017 and would have given Johnson a run for his money in 2019. But the fact is that the whole Labour Party was shit on how to handle Brexit and it cost them.
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Post by Mozzer on May 3, 2024 15:48:48 GMT
Teesside's an example of how truth can be put out there but if you're able to control enough of the media, you can stifle a story. When you consider how much airtime Rayner's situation is getting with how much Houchemn has received for a massively bigger story, it tells you all you need to know.
I've been watching Lucy Frazer and the DCMS tweeting all day about the wonderful free press we have that holds the powerful to account. f*ck off.
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Post by Stranded Hatter on May 3, 2024 16:04:21 GMT
Teesside's an example of how truth can be put out there but if you're able to control enough of the media, you can stifle a story. When you consider how much airtime Rayner's situation is getting with how much Houchemn has received for a massively bigger story, it tells you all you need to know. I've been watching Lucy Frazer and the DCMS tweeting all day about the wonderful free press we have that holds the powerful to account. f*ck off. In fairness to the fourth estate they clearly lack resources to do much of anything worthwhile these days. Never seen so many spelling mistakes and errors where it’s clear the writer forgot the sentence they were writing half way through than in this article. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tees-valley-ben-houchen-labour-local-elections-b2539126.html#comments-area
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Post by nelly on May 3, 2024 17:25:50 GMT
Talking of people who shouldn't be within a million miles of power, the Tees Valley mayoral election, bloody hell. Why do people vote Tory in Teesside ?? Doesn't make sense.
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Post by hedleyverity on May 3, 2024 17:35:43 GMT
Talking of people who shouldn't be within a million miles of power, the Tees Valley mayoral election, bloody hell. Why do people vote Tory in Teesside ?? Doesn't make sense. Michelle Mone should have stood for Mayor somewhere, her corruption wasn’t even on the same scale
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Post by herbiedumplings on May 3, 2024 19:26:00 GMT
Teesside's an example of how truth can be put out there but if you're able to control enough of the media, you can stifle a story. When you consider how much airtime Rayner's situation is getting with how much Houchemn has received for a massively bigger story, it tells you all you need to know. I've been watching Lucy Frazer and the DCMS tweeting all day about the wonderful free press we have that holds the powerful to account. f*ck off. In fairness to the fourth estate they clearly lack resources to do much of anything worthwhile these days. Never seen so many spelling mistakes and errors where it’s clear the writer forgot the sentence they were writing half way through than in this article. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tees-valley-ben-houchen-labour-local-elections-b2539126.html#comments-areaIt’s not a typo - etories are the Russian bots they get to like and share official Conservative Party Tweets. Seriously though: sweet Jesus…
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Post by herbiedumplings on May 3, 2024 19:34:16 GMT
Teesside's an example of how truth can be put out there but if you're able to control enough of the media, you can stifle a story. When you consider how much airtime Rayner's situation is getting with how much Houchemn has received for a massively bigger story, it tells you all you need to know. I've been watching Lucy Frazer and the DCMS tweeting all day about the wonderful free press we have that holds the powerful to account. f*ck off. bUt MiChAeL gOvEs InQuIrY cLeArEd HiM oF aNy WrOnGdOiNg!!!!!!!!!
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Post by The Real Exile on May 3, 2024 20:38:47 GMT
Talking of people who shouldn't be within a million miles of power, the Tees Valley mayoral election, bloody hell. Why do people vote Tory in Teesside ?? Doesn't make sense. Doesn't make sense anywhere, Lizz and her chums properly screwed the economy, and Sunak whilst slightly less useless than Truss also needs gone.
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Post by timberwolf on May 4, 2024 7:51:45 GMT
Why do people vote Tory in Teesside ?? Doesn't make sense. Doesn't make sense anywhere, Lizz and her chums properly screwed the economy, and Sunak whilst slightly less useless than Truss also needs gone. I,d guess they vote for them because they might always have done so and in their eyes labour are still a left wing party. For many though they have no love for the current labour party but just voting that way to rid them of the tories for a few years. They,ll be back voting the other way as labour are bound to make mistakes that they do not like.
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Post by The Real Exile on May 4, 2024 8:04:08 GMT
Doesn't make sense anywhere, Lizz and her chums properly screwed the economy, and Sunak whilst slightly less useless than Truss also needs gone. I,d guess they vote for them because they might always have done so and in their eyes labour are still a left wing party. For many though they have no love for the current labour party but just voting that way to rid them of the tories for a few years. They,ll be back voting the other way as labour are bound to make mistakes that they do not like. It does seem like an endless cycle of the least worst choice, I can't say I particularly like Starmer however the alternative is worse 🙄 it's been done to death but our voting system needs reform so for instance if it is your thing/ethos a vote for Green might actually be worth something.
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