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Post by mreckless on Jul 21, 2024 10:35:27 GMT
Positive movement but it’s not the first time it has happened, usually when there are too many for the french boat to carry safely. Oh and the uk sorted a deal with Albania about 18 months ago, thats why their numbers crossing dropped so drastically. I hope Starmer does a good job, sunak didn’t that’s for sure, I just have doubts Michael Keohan & PA Media Political Reporter, BBC Kent @michaelkeohan Published 19 July 2024 The Home Office has confirmed that a British Border Force vessel which was assisting with a French search and rescue operation has returned migrants to France for the first time. Reported in the same words by the Telegraph and the Independent. They're all wrong? It appears so Martin, they are indeed wrong, check out Aug 12th last year, French coastguards carried 36 and UK coastguards carried 13 back to France as we helped the French in a rescue mission, confirmed by Phillips Sabbatier, the deputy public prosecutor of Boulogne. It has happened a few times, not saying many but the french official said it isnt unique. just the press putting out false headlines, nowt new there
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Post by mreckless on Jul 21, 2024 10:40:52 GMT
Positive movement but it’s not the first time it has happened, usually when there are too many for the french boat to carry safely. Oh and the uk sorted a deal with Albania about 18 months ago, thats why their numbers crossing dropped so drastically. I hope Starmer does a good job, sunak didn’t that’s for sure, I just have doubts First time according to the Daily Heil; On Tuesday night, one person drowned after a boat carrying 72 people was shipwrecked. A joint operation between French and British authorities saw the surviving 71 people rescued and returned to Calais. This was the first time since small boat crossings began that a British Border Force boat returned migrants to France, rather than the UK. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13655827/Labour-goes-war-nail-bars-car-washes-fight-against-illegal-immigration-Rwanda.htmlFake news Red, not like you to believe the Mail 😂 See my reply to Big M above , it has the details of the same last August
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Post by bigmartin on Jul 21, 2024 11:09:15 GMT
Fake news Red, not like you to believe the Mail 😂 See my reply to Big M above , it has the details of the same last August The fact that it was specifically a Border Force boat, rather than an immediate emergency rescue by the Coastguard, might matter. It might be THAT particular fact that's important. There might be subtleties that you are missing (that possibly matter as the missions of the two may be very different). My understanding from reading at least 10 articles on this is that Border Force were able to do this because the French/EU are more open to negotiations with Starmer than they were with Sunak/Conservatives. Which isn't far fetched. After all, who would you rather negotiate with in business? Someone who basically maligns you at every turn, or someone who you actually can do business with. I recall Sunak going after Starmer like a child that had has it's Milky Bar snatched from him at the mere suggestion that Starmer intended to try to renegotiate better agreements than the Tories had managed to. "They're not going to give you anything that they wouldn't give us" he stated. Quite ridiculous, very arrogant (of course) I thought at the time. And here we are. In two weeks, relations are improving. Business is being done. There's also that obvious possibility that everyone else is wrong, including the entirety of the UK press of all colours. But not you. You're right.
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Post by Stranded Hatter on Jul 21, 2024 11:31:25 GMT
Fake news Red, not like you to believe the Mail 😂 See my reply to Big M above , it has the details of the same last August The fact that it was specifically a Border Force boat, rather than an immediate emergency rescue by the Coastguard, might matter. It might be THAT particular fact that's important. There might be subtleties that you are missing (that possibly matter as the missions of the two may be very different). My understanding from reading at least 10 articles on this is that Border Force were able to do this because the French/EU are more open to negotiations with Starmer than they were with Sunak/Conservatives. Which isn't far fetched. After all, who would you rather negotiate with in business? Someone who basically maligns you at every turn, or someone who you actually can do business with. I recall Sunak going after Starmer like a child that had has it's Milky Bar snatched from him at the mere suggestion that Starmer intended to try to renegotiate better agreements than the Tories had managed to. "They're not going to give you anything that they wouldn't give us" he stated. Quite ridiculous, very arrogant (of course) I thought at the time. And here we are. In two weeks, relations are improving. Business is being done. There's also that obvious possibility that everyone else is wrong, including the entirety of the UK press of all colours. But not you. You're right. Heads are going to explode when Labour inevitably “Stop The Boats”
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Post by desmond on Jul 21, 2024 11:32:28 GMT
Fake news Red, not like you to believe the Mail 😂 See my reply to Big M above , it has the details of the same last August The fact that it was specifically a Border Force boat, rather than an immediate emergency rescue by the Coastguard, might matter. It might be THAT particular fact that's important. There might be subtleties that you are missing (that possibly matter as the missions of the two may be very different). My understanding from reading at least 10 articles on this is that Border Force were able to do this because the French/EU are more open to negotiations with Starmer than they were with Sunak/Conservatives. Which isn't far fetched. After all, who would you rather negotiate with in business? Someone who basically maligns you at every turn, or someone who you actually can do business with. I recall Sunak going after Starmer like a child that had has it's Milky Bar snatched from him at the mere suggestion that Starmer intended to try to renegotiate better agreements than the Tories had managed to. "They're not going to give you anything that they wouldn't give us" he stated. Quite ridiculous, very arrogant (of course) I thought at the time. And here we are. In two weeks, relations are improving. Business is being done. There's also that obvious possibility that everyone else is wrong, including the entirety of the UK press of all colours. But not you. You're right. I’m struggling to understand this “we were allowed” line. As I’ve read the article we were asked to help with a rescue of migrants in French waters. Given the rescue was apparently led by the French and the migrants were in their waters surely it was a given they’d be returned to France.
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Post by herbiedumplings on Jul 21, 2024 11:32:54 GMT
Fake news Red, not like you to believe the Mail 😂 See my reply to Big M above , it has the details of the same last August The fact that it was specifically a Border Force boat, rather than an immediate emergency rescue by the Coastguard, might matter. It might be THAT particular fact that's important. There might be subtleties that you are missing (that possibly matter as the missions of the two may be very different). My understanding from reading at least 10 articles on this is that Border Force were able to do this because the French/EU are more open to negotiations with Starmer than they were with Sunak/Conservatives. Which isn't far fetched. After all, who would you rather negotiate with in business? Someone who basically maligns you at every turn, or someone who you actually can do business with. There's also that obvious possibility that everyone else is wrong, including the entirety of the UK press of all colours. But not you. You're right. It matters. A great deal. Unlike the US Coastguard, HM Coastguard’s remit is purely search and rescue. It’s an arms-length body of the Department for Transport. They have no enforcement powers. Border Force, on the other hand, do have enforcement powers, and come under the Home Office. Completely separate organisations. This is the first time individuals who would previously have been detained by the organisation that picked them up have been taken back to where they departed from, and turned over to the French authorities. The Tories are gone. There’s no need to be the doggy in the hat saying things are fine anymore.
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Post by stalybridgehatter on Jul 21, 2024 11:46:00 GMT
Fake news Red, not like you to believe the Mail 😂 See my reply to Big M above , it has the details of the same last August The fact that it was specifically a Border Force boat, rather than an immediate emergency rescue by the Coastguard, might matter. It might be THAT particular fact that's important. There might be subtleties that you are missing (that possibly matter as the missions of the two may be very different). My understanding from reading at least 10 articles on this is that Border Force were able to do this because the French/EU are more open to negotiations with Starmer than they were with Sunak/Conservatives. Which isn't far fetched. After all, who would you rather negotiate with in business? Someone who basically maligns you at every turn, or someone who you actually can do business with. I recall Sunak going after Starmer like a child that had has it's Milky Bar snatched from him at the mere suggestion that Starmer intended to try to renegotiate better agreements than the Tories had managed to. "They're not going to give you anything that they wouldn't give us" he stated. Quite ridiculous, very arrogant (of course) I thought at the time. And here we are. In two weeks, relations are improving. Business is being done. There's also that obvious possibility that everyone else is wrong, including the entirety of the UK press of all colours. But not you. You're right. He may be doing well with the EU, but the real mark of diplomacy, and a sign of good foreign relations, will be if he can get documentation and returns agreements with countries like Eritrea and Iran. That really will be something to applaud.
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Post by stevie57 on Jul 21, 2024 11:50:23 GMT
Rare species of wildlife…(reply to Timberwolf comment in Friendlies thread).
Combined votes cast in the three Stockport constituencies in the general election July 2024 (five largest parties).
Lib Dem’s 44,733 Labour 40,554 Conservative 25,424 Reform 18,621 Green 8,258
Starkly at odds with the 81 voters in the poll at the top of this thread, and the general tone of this place.
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Post by vicar on Jul 21, 2024 12:16:29 GMT
Rare species of wildlife…(reply to Timberwolf comment in Friendlies thread). Combined votes cast in the three Stockport constituencies in the general election July 2024 (five largest parties). Lib Dem’s 44,733 Labour 40,554 Conservative 25,424 Reform 18,621 Green 8,258 Starkly at odds with the 81 voters in the poll at the top of this thread, and the general tone of this place. Still leaning towards progressive parties, however on the real vote people voted tactically to oust the tories and many of the voters on here are not based in Stockport.
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Post by redhatter on Jul 21, 2024 12:16:58 GMT
I wonder if anyone at the Sunday Express has asked businesses whether they want to pay to have their products certified to two ever-so-slightly different sets of product safety standards or just one? Thought not. Christ, the ridiculousness of their indignation is like a four year old insisting repeatedly that it was the fairies who came in the night that left all the toys out… Following your comment, I had a look at the Sunday Express in the shop (not buying the far right rag, it's even worse than the Mail). It was screaming "THE GREAT BREXIT BETRAYAL", because Labour are looking to mirror EU product safety rules for manufacturers and we would become a "rule taker". I work in manufacturing and the last thing we need is two sets of rules. The EU is one of our largest markets and not having alignment is a major issue. Cameron and Osbourne warned we would become rule takers, if we left the EU, but that is exactly where we are. It's too late, those that advocated for Brexit and those that voted for it have already done the damage. What does the Express want? You cannot manufacture to two sets of regulations. They are deliberately trying to rile their elderly, gullible readership, because it's in the vested financial self interest of the Express' owners to ensure we don't go back in the EU. UK Manufacturing has been completely screwed over by Brexit. We may have a 'free trade deal', but we don't have free movement of goods. Parts get stuck in customs, we have to pay customs duties, which causes delays and damages competitiveness. It's a shit show. I don't understand why Labour has pledged to keep the UK out of the Customs Union in their manifesto? It makes no sense whatsoever. It's not the same a rejoining the Single Market, which would mean free movement of people, which I think is the main reason people voted Brexit. Most of them wouldn't have the first clue what the Customs Union is.
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Post by redhatter on Jul 21, 2024 12:23:50 GMT
Rare species of wildlife…(reply to Timberwolf comment in Friendlies thread). Combined votes cast in the three Stockport constituencies in the general election July 2024 (five largest parties). Lib Dem’s 44,733 Labour 40,554 Conservative 25,424 Reform 18,621 Green 8,258 Starkly at odds with the 81 voters in the poll at the top of this thread, and the general tone of this place. 68% of people voted for progressive parties in the three Stockport constituencies, so why is it starkly at odds with the general tone of this place? The majority of people of views on here tend to be progressive, but there is nothing to stop anyone with an right of centre opinion posting.
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Post by The Real Exile on Jul 21, 2024 12:26:36 GMT
Indeed, if you have a differing view Stevie please feel free to tell us.
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Post by redhatter on Jul 21, 2024 12:32:21 GMT
Fake news Red, not like you to believe the Mail 😂 See my reply to Big M above , it has the details of the same last August I don't believe the Mail, but all the main news outlets are reporting the same story. Whether it's true or not, I don't know.
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Post by bigmartin on Jul 21, 2024 12:39:47 GMT
Rare species of wildlife…(reply to Timberwolf comment in Friendlies thread). Combined votes cast in the three Stockport constituencies in the general election July 2024 (five largest parties). Lib Dem’s 44,733 Labour 40,554 Conservative 25,424 Reform 18,621 Green 8,258 Starkly at odds with the 81 voters in the poll at the top of this thread, and the general tone of this place. 68% of people voted for progressive parties in the three Stockport constituencies, so why is it starkly at odds with the general tone of this place? The majority of people of views on here tend to be progressive, but there is nothing to stop anyone with an right of centre opinion posting. There isn't. And it's great when they do. But what snowflakes they all seem to be just because there's push back. I thought it was woke lefties like me who were meant to be mard-arses but every time one of our right leaning friends post they seem to mandatorily post with a pithy insult on the conduct of the board. The tone on this board is very good. I don't see too many personal attacks. And when there is it's always a two way thing.
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Post by bigmartin on Jul 21, 2024 12:47:18 GMT
I wonder if anyone at the Sunday Express has asked businesses whether they want to pay to have their products certified to two ever-so-slightly different sets of product safety standards or just one? Thought not. Christ, the ridiculousness of their indignation is like a four year old insisting repeatedly that it was the fairies who came in the night that left all the toys out… Following your comment, I had a look at the Sunday Express in the shop (not buying the far right rag, it's even worse than the Mail). It was screaming "THE GREAT BREXIT BETRAYAL", because Labour are looking to mirror EU product safety rules for manufacturers and we would become a "rule taker". I work in manufacturing and the last thing we need is two sets of rules. The EU is one of our largest markets and not having alignment is a major issue. Cameron and Osbourne warned we would become rule takers, if we left the EU, but that is exactly where we are. It's too late, those that advocated for Brexit and those that voted for it have already done the damage. What does the Express want? You cannot manufacture to two sets of regulations. They are deliberately trying to rile their elderly, gullible readership, because it's in the vested financial self interest of the Express' owners to ensure we don't go back in the EU. UK Manufacturing has been completely screwed over by Brexit. We may have a 'free trade deal', but we don't have free movement of goods. Parts get stuck in customs, we have to pay customs duties, which causes delays and damages competitiveness. It's a shit show. I don't understand why Labour has pledged to keep the UK out of the Customs Union in their manifesto? It makes no sense whatsoever. It's not the same a rejoining the Single Market, which would mean free movement of people, which I think is the main reason people voted Brexit. Most of them wouldn't have the first clue what the Customs Union is. I have a theory that Labour will do a lot of 'water testing' this Parliament but that if they get a second term they might then go into Referendum territory. Perhaps a referendum on how people think it's going? Whether it's working? Whether they still agree with their original vote? And so forth. I'm on a website called Prolific. Surveys, experiments and all sorts of stuff. For cash. Helps me sustain a bit of a spending pot for my ale trails, hobbies, kegs for my beer machine and so forth. Lots of very interesting exercises but I've noticed the odd one coming up about the EU. Usually sponsored by some political organisations or such. I wonder if these are the first tentacles being spread. I think it's sensible, if Labour did remain in power more long term, to check out fully the direction of travel first. Both for partisan political reasons but also for Democratic reasons. In the sense that I think there must be a significant will to head back towards membership of the EU before we do it. About 52% would seem fair to me.
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