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Post by vicar on Jul 25, 2024 8:57:01 GMT
I don't think that's what Lisa Nandy is saying, she said it should be left to the sporting bodies, I find JK Rowling's stance on this subject a bit odd as it's a very minor issue which affects very few people.
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Post by vicar on Jul 25, 2024 8:57:41 GMT
problem is they are cheating. Whether that's the sole reason they're transitioning or not doesn't matter to the women who are losing out on scholarships / being injured / not making the Olympic team etc by these males. How many are we talking about?
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Post by HTC on Jul 25, 2024 8:59:03 GMT
That much is true, but for me the main issue was the “cheat in sport” bit, which implies certain individuals’ sole reason to transition is to gain an advantage over cis women. Comes across like the “all gay men are paedophiles” trope that did the rounds in the past. I also think we should let female athletes decide for themselves. A fair few support trans women competing in female competitions
Not really.
Given the amount of death / rape threats any women who speaks out gets on this issue, it's not really a surprise that most female athletes are keeping their heads down.
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Mozzer
Contributor
Posts: 1,299
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Post by Mozzer on Jul 25, 2024 9:18:36 GMT
I don't think that's what Lisa Nandy is saying, she said it should be left to the sporting bodies, I find JK Rowling's stance on this subject a bit odd as it's a very minor issue which affects very few people. Sounds balanced and fair. No place for that if you've got a transphobe in the Daily Mail blurting on though.
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Post by herbiedumplings on Jul 25, 2024 9:26:54 GMT
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Post by Count de Stockport on Jul 25, 2024 9:29:34 GMT
I also think we should let female athletes decide for themselves. A fair few support trans women competing in female competitions
Not really.
Given the amount of death / rape threats any women who speaks out gets on this issue, it's not really a surprise that most female athletes are keeping their heads down.
I didn’t say all or even most. Equally, you don’t have the evidence to prove that ‘most’ female athletes oppose competing against trans women. Also, let’s not pretend that cis women who speak out in support of trans rights don’t receive death/rape threats
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Post by timberwolf on Jul 25, 2024 9:31:53 GMT
problem is they are cheating. Whether that's the sole reason they're transitioning or not doesn't matter to the women who are losing out on scholarships / being injured / not making the Olympic team etc by these males. How many are we talking about? Even one is one too many. Women are the ones who will suffer and not men if its not nipped in the bud for good. In sport a women who wants to be seen as male is no threat in performance but not the other way round. The subject might have nothing to do with J K Rowling but certainly has with Sharon Davies who also gets the shit thrown at her by many but will get more supporters from the general public and in female sport.
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Post by timberwolf on Jul 25, 2024 9:36:16 GMT
Not really.
Given the amount of death / rape threats any women who speaks out gets on this issue, it's not really a surprise that most female athletes are keeping their heads down.
I didn’t say all or even most. Equally, you don’t have the evidence to prove that ‘most’ female athletes oppose competing against trans women. Also, let’s not pretend that cis women who speak out in support of trans rights don’t receive death/rape threats Really the only thing female athletes can do is have the balls, no pun intended, to walk off if a trans is competing making a complete farce of the whole thing. Problem is its women we are talking about who will in many cases will not stand up and be counted like in the workplace of the past where they left it to a few to work for their rights.
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Post by Nik on Jul 25, 2024 9:40:17 GMT
If they're trans-women, they aren't blokes. Is that an argument for them to be involved in Women’s sport ? It is not; it's an argument that they aren't blokes so calling them such is incorrect.
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Post by Count de Stockport on Jul 25, 2024 9:42:51 GMT
For the record, I think trans people and sport is far from simple - there’s no easy solution here; and besides, it doesn’t seem as important as other challenges facing trans people
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Post by nelly on Jul 25, 2024 9:48:02 GMT
Is that an argument for them to be involved in Women’s sport ? It is not; it's an argument that they aren't blokes so calling them such is incorrect. A person who has grown a pair of tits through taking hormones, but still has the last turkey in the shop down below isn't a Woman.
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Post by herbiedumplings on Jul 25, 2024 9:50:35 GMT
For the record, I think trans people and sport is far from simple - there’s no easy solution here; and besides, it doesn’t seem as important as other challenges facing trans people Agreed. As Emily Bridges pointed out, anyone presenting as female in an “open” category is effectively outing herself as trans so it’s far from a tidy solution.
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Post by HTC on Jul 25, 2024 9:52:49 GMT
Not quite what you are asking, but yes, we do ban women who are taking testosterone.
presentation / gender identity is not the issue here, it's about the sex of the individuals concerned.
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Post by herbiedumplings on Jul 25, 2024 10:02:14 GMT
Not quite what you are asking, but yes, we do ban women who are taking testosterone.
presentation / gender identity is not the issue here, it's about the sex of the individuals concerned.
So if an individual agrees to abide to all rules relating to competing, you’re saying there should nonetheless be certain restrictions? On what grounds?
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Post by HTC on Jul 25, 2024 10:06:13 GMT
Not quite what you are asking, but yes, we do ban women who are taking testosterone.
presentation / gender identity is not the issue here, it's about the sex of the individuals concerned.
So if an individual agrees to abide to all rules relating to competing, you’re saying there should nonetheless be certain restrictions? On what grounds? my position is very straight forward.
Sport is restricted by sex for very good reasons (see the website I linked to a few posts back).
Males (no matter how they identify) have no place in female sport.
Essentially, issues around fairness and the safety of female competitors are far more important than 'inclusivity'
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