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Post by timberwolf on May 14, 2022 9:04:33 GMT
They thought he's very good in the air, physically strong, decent organiser, can hold the line/play the off side, and importantly scores goals from set pieces. Also has improved his passing. Granted maybe more cover than regular starter, but decent player. Exactly, its not as if we are going into the greedy league if we get promoted. We will be going into a league where any side in the PO will be in the top half of div.2 next season. Even pools who lost 3 of their best players, recruited really what was left but managed a lower mid table finish after a bad last quarter of the season. A good fa cup run and a papa johns semi into the bargain ended by the competition winners on a penalty shoot out.
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Post by scfc29 on May 14, 2022 10:16:54 GMT
As much as I agree our defenders have given us some nervy moments throughout the run in, we do also have the most clean sheets in the division and conceded the 2nd least amount of goals.
The standard of centre halves between league 1 and the national division doesn’t have much in it (look at Barclay).
Palmer should absolutely be given an extension. As should Hinchliffe, I think this seasons actually been his best and people still don’t realise how good he is.
I’d understand if Hogan moved on, but I also think he’s good enough to be part of the squad in league 2.
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Post by desmond on May 14, 2022 10:33:19 GMT
As much as I agree our defenders have given us some nervy moments throughout the run in, we do also have the most clean sheets in the division and conceded the 2nd least amount of goals. The standard of centre halves between league 1 and the national division doesn’t have much in it (look at Barclay). Palmer should absolutely be given an extension. As should Hinchliffe, I think this seasons actually been his best and people still don’t realise how good he is. I’d understand if Hogan moved on, but I also think he’s good enough to be part of the squad in league 2. I’ve previously been in the camp that Ben had his best days behind him but agree that overall he’s been outstanding this season.
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Post by Barmy Blue Army on May 17, 2022 0:12:06 GMT
My take - brace yourself - I had to get this out of my head. But first and foremost congratulations again for Sunday boys - you've done us proud.
New contracts
Of the out of contract lads, I'd 100% be renewing Hinchliffe, Hippolyte and Palmer. I think only the last one is arguable but for me it's a no-brainer. He has his flaws - the odd mistake and a lack of pace - but his attributes more than make up for that and he's the best defender in our squad and a real threat in the air. We're simply not going to bring 4 CBs better than him and that's before you consider his role within the club as a leader and continuation of the NLN (now double!) winning team. He also won't command the biggest wage. Whether he starts week in, week out in League 2 (that's nice to say as a definite!) that's another question but I'd certainly want him in the squad as an option.
Expirations
I've got no issues with the rest of the out of contract lads (Walker, Maynard, Stott, Hogan, CJ and Alli) leaving with a thank you and goodbye unless DC and his team think Alli can come on a long way. CJ and Hogan could be squad players in L2 but their age goes against them and I'd hope we could find better - especially with the squad size and wage limits in L2. Hogan perhaps could be given a year as a leader in the squad if we wanted cover for a back 3 but see above and I think that he didn't feature in the crunch, end of season games was telling of DC's view. Thank you for some great times though and he did play a huge part in our clean sheet and winning run midseason.
Transfers out?
I'll caveat this (and the next section) that a lot depends on whether DC sees us continuing the back 3 system and whether that comes with 1 up top or 2 - though of course we'll want the ability to change things.
I think from team selections we can comfortably predict that Ross, Reid and Barclay are on their way out (though that may have to loans given their contract situations). It feels harsh on Barclay as I've heard he's done well at Yeovil but you'd think his loan wouldn't have been extended if he was in DC's plans (who did get a look at him before sending him out in the first place).
The next four: Whitfield, Kitching, Newby and Quigley I can see going if we bring in quality replacements as they've all had limited game time under DC and/or seemingly fallen out of favour. I would understand it and trust in DC and his team's judgment. All four going would be too much squad upheaval imo though - especially a title winning one and with other additions needed too - and they all could play a squad role, at least, in L2 imo.
Personally, I'd keep Quigley, who can be tremendous on his today and brings a lot to the team, and bring in another top quality no.9 to compete with him. Pre-injuries he was a key player for us so it would be interesting to see what he could do with a full pre-season with DC behind him. He's also scored goals in L2, even as a ''big man''. However, I could see DC moving him on and bringing in another striker or 2 if he thinks 3-4-2-1 or a front 3 with wide attackers alongside Madden is the way forward.
Newby, I think I'd keep partially because his performances at the end of this season have impressed me but mainly because I think he could be a cheap, settled and versatile squad player - basically Hippo for the right handside.
Kitching and Whitfield I'd move on if we can get upgrades but they have both played a significant part in our success this season and I wouldn't be adverse to them staying as forward and left side of defence cover. Whitfield is a tough one in particular given that he's probably the one player that stood out under Rusk, but he's barely featured at all and doesn't suit 3-4-1-2. If we were interested in playing a front 3 more often though I think it would make sense to keep him and see what he can do after a DC pre-season. Transfers in
For me, the must haves that could slot straight into the first XI and where we could/should spend big are:
- Left and right sided CBs with pace who can carry and play the ball but also can play in a 2 and defend(!) to replace Hogan and compete with Johnson (who dropped off a little at the end of the season imo). So basically perfect defenders, please!
- A forward to partner Madden, whether that's a no.9 if that's how DC sees us playing or someone that plays off the last man, but he has to be able to lead the line and offer a threat in the box when Madden drops deep. Ideally, a finisher with a good goalscoring record and, pushing the boat out, with pace unless we get that with other signings/options. So basically a Mullin or Palmer equivalent!
The other targets that may be more squad players, though are still very much needed imo are:
- A GK to challenge Ben, though he's gone from strength to strength at the end of the season and deserves his chance in L2 imo. Potentially LAH if that's what the management think is best but for me they have to be ready to slot in if Ben is injured or his form dips so not a traditional ''no.2''.
- Cannon or a similar CM i.e. no.6. He's done more than enough for me to want him to sign permanently but I'd understand if we can't get that done. We certainly need a quality centre midfield replacement with our high press, high intensity style and if we play 3-4-2-1 more often this moves up to a ''must have''. That would also probably necessitate bringing in another CM as the cover role unless Cody Johnson is ready (feels a season or 2 too soon for me).
- A versatile left sided defender i.e. that can cover left CB, full back and wingback. In my head that's ZFA if he's available but I wouldn't be adverse to Kitching being kept on or Pye taking that role if DC et al think he's ready. Or even a completely new signing. ZFA is the right mold though. Can play all 3 positions, can carry the ball and be a more ''attacking'' wide CB if required but also defend.
- A versatile forward/attacking mid (x2?), ideally, who could play at the front of our midfield trio/quad as a sort of no.10, wide as a winger or inside forward if we wanted to play a front 3, or even alongside Madden in a front 2. Connor Lemonheigh-Evans may be the man in a straight swap for Whitfield (unless he could be the answer but DC doesn't seem keen)? Ideally we also need an attacking option with real pace that can play in a 2 with Madden. I think we've tried Crankshaw but decided it doesn't quite work so potentially this is 2 signings especially if Quigley goes.
The squad!
Broadly this is how I'd see our squad in my Football Manager mind. Italics are the young players and brackets are used when players are being counted more than once as back-ups in their non-preferred positions (though it's arguable for some). I'll say again this could change a bit if DC sees us playing 4-3-3 or 3-4-2-1 more often.
GK - Hinchliffe; New Signing/LAH
R(W)B - MSH; Minihan; (Newby)
CB - New LCB; New RCB; Palmer; R.Johnson; Keane; (ZFA/Kitching/New Signing); (Minihan); Pye; Holding
L(W)B - Rydel; Hippo; ZFA/Kitching/New Signing; (Pye)
Midfielders - Collar; Croasdale; Sarcevic; New no.6/Cannon; (New no.10/CLE); (Hippo); (Keane); (Newby); C.Johnson
Forwards - New no.9; New no.10/CLE?; Madden; Quigley/new pacey forward/Whitfield; Crankshaw; Newby; (Hippo)
That's 22 first teamers and 3 youngsters by my count and feels well balanced unless DC is moving away permanently from 3-4-1-2 to 3-4-2-1 when you'd probably need another midfielder over a forward. (Worth noting that we get the luxury of naming 7(!) subs in the league so it's a 18-man matchday squad now too.) Ultimately, that feels like a good note to leave it on as DC's and his team has been excellent to date so I completely trust them to bring in the right people.
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Post by wnm on May 17, 2022 12:20:23 GMT
I’m still on the fence with Ash - he’s my favourite County player at an age where I shouldn’t have one and he defends the box so we’ll but he’s made far too many howlers this season.
I agree with your general post BBA but add another CB to the addition list to play the central role even if we do keep Ash.
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Post by HTC on May 17, 2022 12:31:34 GMT
For me, a lot of the decision with Ash depends how the club view Pye & Holding.
I don’t think he’ll be quite good enough to start every week in League Two, so we’d be signing him as a squad player.
However, if the club think Pye/Holding are very close to first team level, we don’t necessarily need to be carrying an extra senior defender as a squad player, as we already have Keane in that role, and the youngsters get more chance to develop.
If the club think the two youngsters aren’t quite ready, I’d be looking to keep Ash, but move Barclay on.
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Post by johnsdentist on May 17, 2022 12:33:19 GMT
June 2022 Hinchliffe Age 33 Hogan Age 32 Palmer Age 29 Earl Age 20 Walker Age 26 Jennings Age 30 Maynard Age 32 Stott Age 23 Alli Age 21
June 2023 Pye Age 18 Kitching Age 26 Collar Age 24 Croasdale Age 27 Newby Age 26 Whitfield Age 25 Rooney Age 31 Reid Age 26 Keane Age 28 Minihan Age 27
June 2024 Ross Age 24 Barclay Age 25 Southam Hales Age 25 Sarcevic Age 29 Rydel Age 20 Crankshaw Age 23 Madden Age 31 Quigley Age 29
So out of those: The 2022 players: I’d be getting Palmer on a new contract ASAP. I’d offer another year to Ben (though he’s 34, and I’d imagine he goes at the end of the season). I’d like to see Stott given a chance under Challinor, and see how things work out for Jennings. I’d see how things go with Hogan’s form, and potentially offer another year if it improves. Don’t know enough about Earl or Ali, but Walker and Maynard (on current standing) can be allowed to leave IMO. The 2023 lot: See how Pye develops Collar and Croasdale both plenty good enough, and I’d like them to secure longer deals. Keane and Minihan are in or at least very close to legendary status. If they can stay fit and carry on improving as we improve, absolutely keep them around. Whitfield, Kitching, and Newby - see how they get on with game time. Rooney and Reid can go. The 2024 lot: Not seen enough of Ross to know whether he’s a long-term replacement for Ben, but he’s only young, has some good strengths and can definitely develop. Need to see more from Barclay, and I think we probably will. Starting to see more from Sarcevic. The rest are absolutely quality. Starting to see more from Sarcevic ?! Where have you been. In the toilets during the game ?
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Post by gibbo on May 17, 2022 12:35:43 GMT
I don’t think he’ll be quite good enough to start every week in League Two, so we’d be signing him as a squad player. Also a question of whether Ash will himself want to stay around as a squad player. Sure there will be more than a few takers in National League should he become a Free Agent.
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Post by gibbo on May 17, 2022 12:38:53 GMT
(Worth noting that we get the luxury of naming 7(!) subs in the league so it's a 18-man matchday squad now too.) Is that confirmed? I was searching around and found a article about the EFL voting on potentially allowing 5 subs (from 9 named), as the Premier League have done.
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Post by BWScarf on May 17, 2022 12:48:07 GMT
So out of those: The 2022 players: I’d be getting Palmer on a new contract ASAP. I’d offer another year to Ben (though he’s 34, and I’d imagine he goes at the end of the season). I’d like to see Stott given a chance under Challinor, and see how things work out for Jennings. I’d see how things go with Hogan’s form, and potentially offer another year if it improves. Don’t know enough about Earl or Ali, but Walker and Maynard (on current standing) can be allowed to leave IMO. The 2023 lot: See how Pye develops Collar and Croasdale both plenty good enough, and I’d like them to secure longer deals. Keane and Minihan are in or at least very close to legendary status. If they can stay fit and carry on improving as we improve, absolutely keep them around. Whitfield, Kitching, and Newby - see how they get on with game time. Rooney and Reid can go. The 2024 lot: Not seen enough of Ross to know whether he’s a long-term replacement for Ben, but he’s only young, has some good strengths and can definitely develop. Need to see more from Barclay, and I think we probably will. Starting to see more from Sarcevic. The rest are absolutely quality. Starting to see more from Sarcevic ?! Where have you been. In the toilets during the game ? Yeah I posted that months ago, John. 6th January when Sarcevic had been here for five minutes.
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Post by J on May 17, 2022 13:04:47 GMT
I'd keep Palmer. I think he would be fine with a couple of pacier, ball playing centre backs alongside him. He deserves another year at least.
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Post by scfc29 on May 17, 2022 13:06:31 GMT
I'd keep Palmer. I think he would be fine with a couple of pacier, ball playing centre backs alongside him. He deserves another year at least. Continuity is also important, don’t want to be replacing half a team with a winning mentality and close bond like ours at the moment.
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Post by oakwoodbank on May 17, 2022 13:07:13 GMT
June 2022 Hinchliffe Age 33 Hogan Age 32 Palmer Age 29 Earl Age 20 Walker Age 26 Jennings Age 30 Maynard Age 32 Stott Age 23 Alli Age 21
June 2023 Pye Age 18 Kitching Age 26 Collar Age 24 Croasdale Age 27 Newby Age 26 Whitfield Age 25 Rooney Age 31 Reid Age 26 Keane Age 28 Minihan Age 27
June 2024 Ross Age 24 Barclay Age 25 Southam Hales Age 25 Sarcevic Age 29 Rydel Age 20 Crankshaw Age 23 Madden Age 31 Quigley Age 29
Johnson Aged 25
June 2023 —Rooney Age 31 ?? John Rooney has completed a sensational return to Barrow after The Bluebirds paid an undisclosed fee to Stockport County to bring the midfield star back to the Club. The 31-year-old has put pen to paper on a two-and-a-half-year deal.
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Post by stockytwo on May 17, 2022 13:09:40 GMT
For the out of contracts I would say...
Hinchliffe Age 33 - Hell yep Hippolyte Age 27 - Ditto but 3 years please Hogan Age 32 - Maybe, but also wouldn't be heartbroken and would totally understand if DC looks elsewhere Palmer Age 29 - Yep, definately worth another year Walker Age 26 - No Jennings Age 30 - No (sorry) Maynard Age 32 - No Stott Age 23 - No Alli Age 21 - No
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Post by oakwoodbank on May 17, 2022 13:12:55 GMT
If we go up I'd like to see us have a younger squad and maybe bring players in who have resale value, with that being said I'd let players like Hogan go, but legends like Palmer and Hinchliffe obviously stay. Oh No! I thought that the,"we are a selling club" maxim had bit the dust. This season has shown that our maturer players have given good service. We have a good academy set-up, let's bring on our own young players.
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