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Post by desmond on Jul 11, 2024 7:49:40 GMT
No point in us winning Sunday anyway, what’s the point of beating another poor side.
😛
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Post by samscfc on Jul 11, 2024 7:53:35 GMT
What other decent teams have we beat? Colombia, Switzerland, Croatia, Denmark, Germany, Sweden, Senegal. You can’t keep saying we don’t beat decent team when we’re in another final. You don’t get to two finals and a semi without beating good teams. I respectfully disagree. But we're in a final, I'm going to enjoy it rather than discussing previous games.
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Post by albybeliever on Jul 11, 2024 7:54:50 GMT
What a brilliant evening that was. I’ve always been pro-Southgate and found much of the noise and criticism unwarranted and baffling, but this tournament tested my faith until tonight. Too often we’ve looked tired, passive and like we’re a pale imitation of France’s reactive approach. Today we were, for the most part, back to our best under Southgate - fluid, a nice balance of ambitious and sensible, calm, determined, relentless.
So so happy for Ollie Watkins - what a story he is, from on loan in the NLS to scoring the winner in a Euros semi in a decade. And so happy for the team and for Southgate. Loads of standout performances (Mainoo, Saka, Stones, Walker) but I particularly want to give credit to Foden, given how much I’ve criticised him this tournament (with some justification, I might add). He was unplayable first half, zipping around and creating havoc, all deft interchanges and quick thinking. It helped that the Dutch gave him space to work in and that his teammates played better than at any time since the opener, but he looked so much more energetic and hungrier too, pressing furiously and flying around.
Of course there are caveats - it was an incredibly soft penalty (by which I mean never a penalty in a million years), Kane still looks pretty laboured, the second half wasn’t brilliant. But the latter was the result of Koeman’s smart changes, not because we chose to sit back (and not because Evil Gareth whispered negative poison into the ears of our brave boys at half-time, as hilariously suggested on here).
Spain are heavy favourites for the final, and rightly so - they’ve been magnificent this tournament and will fully deserve it if they win. But it’s 90 minutes - anything can happen. And we’ve improved in each of the recent games. Nothing to lose, everything to win on Sunday - come on England!
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Post by gibbo on Jul 11, 2024 7:55:49 GMT
rather than discussing previous games. You're pretty quick to reference previous games though when you're giving Southgate a slagging, why change now Sam ??
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Post by gibbo on Jul 11, 2024 8:00:09 GMT
Spain are heavy favourites for the final, I'd say they're favourites, not necessarily heavy favourites now. France could easily have took them to extra time and "If" we can play like the 1st Half last night then we're currently probably a better team than France. Best thing that happened to us last night ironically was them scoring early, the shackles came off then and we played with a bit of freedom.
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Post by wnm on Jul 11, 2024 8:14:33 GMT
Spain are heavy favourites for the final, I'd say they're favourites, not necessarily heavy favourites now. France could easily have took them to extra time and "If" we can play like the 1st Half last night then we're currently probably a better team than France. Best thing that happened to us last night ironically was them scoring early, the shackles came off then and we played with a bit of freedom. We did actually start brightly before their goal I thought. Just before the penalty was awarded I thought this has been our best 15 minutes of the competition and ironically we’re behind.
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Post by vicar on Jul 11, 2024 8:33:25 GMT
- it was an incredibly soft penalty (by which I mean never a penalty in a million years)! My first reaction was it wasn't a penalty but in slow motion the defender was nowhere near the ball, had his studs up and caught Kane heavily, it could be argued he was going for the ball but he missed it and got the man that's a foul anywhere on the pitch.
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Post by scfc29 on Jul 11, 2024 8:41:25 GMT
- it was an incredibly soft penalty (by which I mean never a penalty in a million years)! My first reaction was it wasn't a penalty but in slow motion the defender was nowhere near the ball, had his studs up and caught Kane heavily, it could be argued he was going for the ball but he missed it and got the man that's a foul anywhere on the pitch. I have to say I think that’s never a penalty. Especially feel like it wasn’t a clear and obvious error that needed to be overturned - if it was against county I’d have been fuming But Lampards goal was over the line, Beckham’s red card was harsh, the hand of god etc etc. These things balance out over time.
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Post by wnm on Jul 11, 2024 8:42:31 GMT
- it was an incredibly soft penalty (by which I mean never a penalty in a million years)! My first reaction was it wasn't a penalty but in slow motion the defender was nowhere near the ball, had his studs up and caught Kane heavily, it could be argued he was going for the ball but he missed it and got the man that's a foul anywhere on the pitch. But 9/10 not given in the box when the striker has got their shot away. It annoys me that this is the case and feel that should change but on a consistency basis it’s an extremely tough decision.
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Post by bristolhatter on Jul 11, 2024 8:53:39 GMT
My first reaction was it wasn't a penalty but in slow motion the defender was nowhere near the ball, had his studs up and caught Kane heavily, it could be argued he was going for the ball but he missed it and got the man that's a foul anywhere on the pitch. But 9/10 not given in the box when the striker has got their shot away. It annoys me that this is the case and feel that should change but on a consistency basis it’s an extremely tough decision. It's been done to death and 10 years ago, definitely not a penalty but if he hadn't made an attempt to challenge for the ball, Kane is less hurried and get a better shot off. By going for it, he needs to a) either make contact with ball first or b) avoid making any contact with Kane. The other way around, Dumfries clears it and Kane catches him on follow through, ref is blowing 10/10 for a defensive free kick. I get the unwritten rule that penalties have a higher threshold for an award than a free kick but I've seen that type of foul given lots in the box.
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Post by stockytwo on Jul 11, 2024 8:57:25 GMT
What a night, feel sorry for anyone who didn't enjoy that. Can't really say anything else that hasn't been said.
Just on the final though, i'm glad we're playing this Spain team rather than the tika taka 08-14 Spain team. We wouldn't get a kick against that team but I really fancy us in the final here. Obviously this Spain team are absolutely quality and it's beyond doubt that they've been the best team in the tournament but this tournament has been wide open and they aren't some unbeatable force. They play a more direct 'english' game than Spanish teams of yore and we should see enough of the ball to be able to hurt them, their defence in my opinion is worse man for man than the dutch back 4 last night so i'm backing us to be able to get at them.
Granted they have a brilliant midfield, Rodri is the best defensive midfielder in the world, Olmo criminally underated and Fabian Ruiz is showing on the world stage what anyone who's watched a bit of Serie A has known for yonks. Aside from their defence there is also a definitive weakness up top, if Morata was english he literally wouldn't be anywhere near our squad. The wingers are also a very strong area, however Walker is an unbeleivable defender and he'll relish his battle with Williams, Yamal is a concern definately but Shaw is getting fitter by the minute and I hope he starts in the final and has a great game, if we can silence Spains wingers we can win this.
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Post by mattyovrio on Jul 11, 2024 9:07:35 GMT
- it was an incredibly soft penalty (by which I mean never a penalty in a million years)! My first reaction was it wasn't a penalty but in slow motion the defender was nowhere near the ball, had his studs up and caught Kane heavily, it could be argued he was going for the ball but he missed it and got the man that's a foul anywhere on the pitch. Anywhere else on the pitch the ref gives a free kick and yellow for that so it is a pen.
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Post by edjelley on Jul 11, 2024 9:17:41 GMT
My first reaction was it wasn't a penalty but in slow motion the defender was nowhere near the ball, had his studs up and caught Kane heavily, it could be argued he was going for the ball but he missed it and got the man that's a foul anywhere on the pitch. Anywhere else on the pitch the ref gives a free kick and yellow for that so it is a pen. correct. it may have been a bit harsh but can still see why it was given. I reckon also that if the defender hadn't had his studs up so high it would have been easier for Kane to keep the shot lower and on target,so if the defender then misses the ball he's influencing the outcome.
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Post by timberwolf on Jul 11, 2024 9:20:20 GMT
I'd say they're favourites, not necessarily heavy favourites now. France could easily have took them to extra time and "If" we can play like the 1st Half last night then we're currently probably a better team than France. Best thing that happened to us last night ironically was them scoring early, the shackles came off then and we played with a bit of freedom. We did actually start brightly before their goal I thought. Just before the penalty was awarded I thought this has been our best 15 minutes of the competition and ironically we’re behind. Actually the dutch got into the semi final themselves by only playing 15 minutes of good football per game. You,ll never get two equal halfs nowadays as we see at EP. One really good half and the other quite dull seems the name of the game now.
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Mozzer
Contributor
Posts: 1,306
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Post by Mozzer on Jul 11, 2024 9:50:17 GMT
I'm not having this 'anywhere else on the pitch it's a foul' argument. No, it isn't. Kane's leg swings into the defender's foot after the ball has gone. Neither are high and the defender has every right to try to block that.
Let me put it this way, if England had had that awarded against us we'd be moaning about it for a very long time. The Dutch are right to do so.
That being said, we were the better team over the 90mins. It was a lucky decision, but we weren't lucky to win.
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