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Post by David Schofield on May 13, 2023 15:22:15 GMT
I think it’s more about the costs involved and making sure that in at least some way the spend is justified. The stadium is in need of an upgrade but it’s easy for us to spend someone else’s money initially. Let’s also not forget that plenty of people are already concerned about the level of debt/funding that Stott has ploughed in, adding £20m+ to that would take some managing. Hope it starts soon though 😀 I know it's easy to spend someone else's money but it wasn't us saying we'd be having a 22,000 seater stadium, the figures being quoted seem high to me but admittedly it's not my area of work, I still think we've landed lucky with this owner but the interview was disappointing. I would be delighted if they have shelved their plans, there is simply too much risk for too little reward in saddling the club with £40m of debt for a few thousand extra seats Stick a roof a the Railway End and add a top quality training complex in Stockport and that will be a tangible improvement and a legacy to be proud of. Then, and only then, put a proper plan in place for a Popside with 8k seats and prawn sandwich capabilities.
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Post by David Schofield on May 13, 2023 15:24:09 GMT
I work in the property development industry, trust me, they aren’t making any less money. Their costs must have gone up like everyone else's, building materials, transport and labour costs are all high now and so is the cost of borrowing. The cost of money is the biggest factor in many industries, probably no more so than in Property
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Post by Nik on May 13, 2023 15:49:44 GMT
Their costs must have gone up like everyone else's, building materials, transport and labour costs are all high now and so is the cost of borrowing. The cost just gets pushed further up the chain. Massive demand for student accommodation (in the example of Vita) Students will be the ones that bear the brunt of increased costs not Mark Stott But if you compare the scenarios, you've got one costly building project that will be generating weekly rental income of hundreds of pounds per rental property compared to another costly building project that will generate fortnightly income at £20-25 per person. It's going to be a lot easier recouping the expense of building student accommodation than it is the expense of a new stand at a football ground.
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Dids
Frequenter
Posts: 386
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Post by Dids on May 13, 2023 15:57:51 GMT
The cost just gets pushed further up the chain. Massive demand for student accommodation (in the example of Vita) Students will be the ones that bear the brunt of increased costs not Mark Stott But if you compare the scenarios, you've got one costly building project that will be generating weekly rental income of hundreds of pounds per rental property compared to another costly building project that will generate fortnightly income at £20-25 per person. It's going to be a lot easier recouping the expense of building student accommodation than it is the expense of a new stand at a football ground. True you aren’t wrong there.
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Post by J on May 13, 2023 16:12:57 GMT
Their costs must have gone up like everyone else's, building materials, transport and labour costs are all high now and so is the cost of borrowing. The cost just gets pushed further up the chain. Massive demand for student accommodation (in the example of Vita) Students will be the ones that bear the brunt of increased costs not Mark Stott Students who are currently complaining (and in some instances rent striking) their own costs going up with no increase in their support?
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Post by hedleyverity on May 13, 2023 16:22:39 GMT
The cost just gets pushed further up the chain. Massive demand for student accommodation (in the example of Vita) Students will be the ones that bear the brunt of increased costs not Mark Stott Students who are currently complaining (and in some instances rent striking) their own costs going up with no increase in their support? I don’t think Vita cater to that class of student
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Post by herbiedumplings on May 14, 2023 9:23:54 GMT
The cost just gets pushed further up the chain. Massive demand for student accommodation (in the example of Vita) Students will be the ones that bear the brunt of increased costs not Mark Stott But if you compare the scenarios, you've got one costly building project that will be generating weekly rental income of hundreds of pounds per rental property compared to another costly building project that will generate fortnightly income at £20-25 per person. It's going to be a lot easier recouping the expense of building student accommodation than it is the expense of a new stand at a football ground. Is that an accurate comparison, though? A 5000 seater stand should “earn” about £2 million pounds a year. A 200-room student apartment block would “earn” about the same, which is what? 20 storeys? Surely a football stand costs a fraction to build of what a 20 storey apartment block does? No?
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Post by bigmartin on May 14, 2023 9:48:06 GMT
I felt the same. He basically said it’s not happening for the foreseeable. Or even worse, it could be preparing us for the old "it's not economically viable and we could build a whole new ground with great motorway access and state of the art facilities for less" I hope I'm wrong and the money spent so far on EP is reassuring but I'm getting bad vibes. He unequivocally ruled a ground move out though and I don't get the impression these guys would lie about this. I got the feeling that JV was teeing us up for "not yet, but when the wider economic issues around material costs reduce"
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Post by Nik on May 14, 2023 9:49:32 GMT
But if you compare the scenarios, you've got one costly building project that will be generating weekly rental income of hundreds of pounds per rental property compared to another costly building project that will generate fortnightly income at £20-25 per person. It's going to be a lot easier recouping the expense of building student accommodation than it is the expense of a new stand at a football ground. Is that an accurate comparison, though? A 5000 seater stand should “earn” about £2 million pounds a year. A 200-room student apartment block would “earn” about the same, which is what? 20 storeys? Surely a football stand costs a fraction to build of what a 20 storey apartment block does? No? That assumes that all tickets are sold for every game at full adult price though; £2 million is maximum. Looking at Vita's two buildings in Manchester alone; one has 1100 rooms with a minimum rent of £335 per week and the other has 279 rooms at a minimum of £326 per week. In the same time period as that stand has made £2 million, those two buildings alone have brought in almost £24 million as a minimum.
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Post by bigmartin on May 14, 2023 9:51:00 GMT
Vita won’t be stopping property developments until building prices go down So this is all very strange. Building companies quite literally do though. It's an intrinsic part of building company strategy...when NOT to build.
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Post by timberwolf on May 14, 2023 9:54:35 GMT
Is that an accurate comparison, though? A 5000 seater stand should “earn” about £2 million pounds a year. A 200-room student apartment block would “earn” about the same, which is what? 20 storeys? Surely a football stand costs a fraction to build of what a 20 storey apartment block does? No? That assumes that all tickets are sold for every game at full adult price though; £2 million is maximum. Looking at Vita's two buildings in Manchester alone; one has 1100 rooms with a minimum rent of £335 per week and the other has 279 rooms at a minimum of £326 per week. In the same time period as that stand has made £2 million, those two buildings alone have brought in almost £24 million as a minimum. Its also down to the question of the ability to let the rooms and to fill the stand and the likelyhood of which is the most likely to happen.
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Post by Nik on May 14, 2023 10:07:06 GMT
That assumes that all tickets are sold for every game at full adult price though; £2 million is maximum. Looking at Vita's two buildings in Manchester alone; one has 1100 rooms with a minimum rent of £335 per week and the other has 279 rooms at a minimum of £326 per week. In the same time period as that stand has made £2 million, those two buildings alone have brought in almost £24 million as a minimum. Its also down to the question of the ability to let the rooms and to fill the stand and the likelyhood of which is the most likely to happen. There's hundreds of thousands of international students being given visas to come to/remain in the UK each year; it was nearly half a million last year. That's before you consider any British students. They need somewhere to live and Vita's accommodation is in a prime location.
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Post by Ngard on May 14, 2023 10:41:53 GMT
Or even worse, it could be preparing us for the old "it's not economically viable and we could build a whole new ground with great motorway access and state of the art facilities for less" I hope I'm wrong and the money spent so far on EP is reassuring but I'm getting bad vibes. He unequivocally ruled a ground move out though and I don't get the impression these guys would lie about this. I got the feeling that JV was teeing us up for "not yet, but when the wider economic issues around material costs reduce" Is there any indication that building materials, inflation, interest rates are going to come anywhere close to where they were pre covid in the short to medium term though? I feel like if we're waiting for that we could be waiting a long time.
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Post by timberwolf on May 14, 2023 10:53:45 GMT
He unequivocally ruled a ground move out though and I don't get the impression these guys would lie about this. I got the feeling that JV was teeing us up for "not yet, but when the wider economic issues around material costs reduce" Is there any indication that building materials, inflation, interest rates are going to come anywhere close to where they were pre covid in the short to medium term though? I feel like if we're waiting for that we could be waiting a long time. With the increasing likelyhood of league 2 football next season its a supply and demand situation. If thousands are being turned away every home game you could see em getting there finger out but this is not the case. As a div.2 club i think our gates have actually peaked and if the summer recruitment is not what some individuals feel is not to there likeing could drop a bit next season.
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Post by advent on May 14, 2023 12:30:52 GMT
Is there any indication that building materials, inflation, interest rates are going to come anywhere close to where they were pre covid in the short to medium term though? I feel like if we're waiting for that we could be waiting a long time. With the increasing likelyhood of league 2 football next season its a supply and demand situation. If thousands are being turned away every home game you could see em getting there finger out but this is not the case. As a div.2 club i think our gates have actually peaked and if the summer recruitment is not what some individuals feel is not to there likeing could drop a bit next season. we will be up there challenging again next season with this squad without any additions, but of course there will be some. So I expect us to be filling EP again most weeks.
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