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Post by Sina on Aug 30, 2023 9:52:53 GMT
We're a different club than the Stockport County we all know and love now. What is the Stockport County we know and love though?? There have been a few versions of County since I've supported: mid-80's in the doldrums trying to survive, the bankrolled years of success under Elwood, heady days of the Championship, the Kennedy / Sharks farce, the even bigger Trust farce, the depressing Non-League days, and now the successful period we're "happilly" enjoying under our fantastic owner who's putting his money in to improve everything about the club. Which of the above version of it exactly was the one you know and love? Fair points in here. I suspect *most* people probably look back fondly on a time when they were going with their mates, boozing all day, coaches and trains down and staying over at away games without a care in the world. Those times are probably largely from 16 to 35ish aren't they - even if we were shit during that time, which largely we have been. Wouldn't be a surprise if people choose their favourite or most enjoyable time of watching County at somewhere between those years and perhaps their enjoyment begins to wain, somewhat, or they become more involved/interested in the day to day runnings of the club and forget what is perhaps important about football - Having a laugh, being a bit down about a shit result but then forgetting about it by about 8pm and ready for the next one. That doesn't mean by the way, we should take our eye off what is going on but we may as well try and enjoy some of it before Mark Stott gets kidnapped by aliens and we're reliant on Barry Jones of Reddish Potato's to put a last ditch bid in to save us from Admin. We've also hopefully got the Co-Op as a fans representative to voice any concerns and hold them accountable for the wider fanbase. The whole sport, sadly, is now f*cking XG this and sack managers after 2 bad games, VAR nonsense, players being about as loyal as a street cat and all that other dog shit that follows the sport around. We're just part of that version of football.
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Post by timberwolf on Aug 30, 2023 10:24:26 GMT
The whole sport, sadly, is now f*cking XG this and sack managers after 2 bad games, VAR nonsense, players being about as loyal as a street cat and all that other dog shit that follows the sport around. We're just part of that version of football. Basically its become more serious than it was and has dropped down now to fans. When multiple millions of money is involved in everything the game has bound to change and is possibly looked at more than it was by different generations of fans and players for that matter than it ever has been. Not sure if i,m correct, but at one time kids and great grandads viewed games and the game itself quite similar and not sure if its the case now. Remember sitting with luke beckett and vernon allatt last season who both were not complementary about players reactions like going down easy and missed chances both would have gobbled up and the latter more or less agreed with my old man about football even though 50 years separated their careers.
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Post by redhatter on Aug 30, 2023 11:29:14 GMT
Elwood put money into County, but we weren't just bankrolled. He had a clear business plan - investing in uncut diamonds, developing players, selling a star on for a profit each season and re-investing in 3 or 4 new players. The development of the Cheadle End was condemned as a white elephant at the time, but it's been an outstanding success that has paid for itself many times over and significantly raised the profile of the Club. It did fall apart towards the end of his reign, we sold too many star players each season and we ended up getting relegated from the Championship, but I think there was a very clear strategy. Even including the sale of the Club to Kennedy, even though it was a disaster for us. A lot can be put down to what your definition of being bankrolled actually is. I,d say we were under elwood but agree it did seem more planned than our present approach certainly on the pitch which is the reason we all attend in the first place. We never had reasons to moan about brendon bringing in a legend to manage us and the players he brought in that will never be forgotton. For many Mark Stott could not have started as bad by having his mate wilson sacking a manager that most loved as much as their club even though football itself has changed so much since the days brendon walked into the building. Elwood is quoted as saying he lost £100k a year over the whole period he was at the Club.
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Post by tgttiw on Aug 30, 2023 12:16:05 GMT
A lot can be put down to what your definition of being bankrolled actually is. I,d say we were under elwood but agree it did seem more planned than our present approach certainly on the pitch which is the reason we all attend in the first place. We never had reasons to moan about brendon bringing in a legend to manage us and the players he brought in that will never be forgotton. For many Mark Stott could not have started as bad by having his mate wilson sacking a manager that most loved as much as their club even though football itself has changed so much since the days brendon walked into the building. Elwood is quoted as saying he lost £100k a year over the whole period he was at the Club. 100k * 10 years £1 million. He sold out to Kennedy for £3/4 so he made a profit. Gave us a new ground plus great memories.
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Post by tgttiw on Aug 30, 2023 12:17:09 GMT
Elwood is quoted as saying he lost £100k a year over the whole period he was at the Club. 100k * 10 years £1 million. He sold out to Kennedy for £3/4 so he made a profit. Gave us a new ground plus great memories. * just to clarify every part of the ground was improved during elwoods tenure. Not a new ground we're still at ep.
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Post by bigmartin on Aug 30, 2023 12:20:11 GMT
I understand the way people feel and Salford Ammies original fans will feel they've lost something equally important and a fair few City fans have fond memories of their struggles but the town will gain much more than we've lost and I'm glad Mark Stott came along. I'm not for a second not glad Stott came in. Totally transformative for us as a football club. We'd been crying out for it for years. I just dearly wish he'd gone about things in a different way. But...his money. His club. If it works in the long term I don't doubt it will work big and we'll all be looking back and wondering what we were whinging about.
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Post by Henry Pratt on Aug 30, 2023 12:41:45 GMT
A lot can be put down to what your definition of being bankrolled actually is. I,d say we were under elwood but agree it did seem more planned than our present approach certainly on the pitch which is the reason we all attend in the first place. We never had reasons to moan about brendon bringing in a legend to manage us and the players he brought in that will never be forgotton. For many Mark Stott could not have started as bad by having his mate wilson sacking a manager that most loved as much as their club even though football itself has changed so much since the days brendon walked into the building. Elwood is quoted as saying he lost £100k a year over the whole period he was at the Club. Absolute nonsense, as I'm sure 57Hattersyears can confirm. He started taking the money he'd loaned back out of the club after the great deal of cash we made in 96-97. Then he sold to Kennedy for a very large profit over his initial investment. He made a fortune from his time at County. Elwood was very good for County. And County was very good for Elwood.
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Post by redhatter on Aug 30, 2023 12:58:16 GMT
Elwood is quoted as saying he lost £100k a year over the whole period he was at the Club. Absolute nonsense, as I'm sure 57Hattersyears can confirm. He started taking the money he'd loaned back out of the club after the great deal of cash we made in 96-97. Then he sold to Kennedy for a very large profit over his initial investment. He made a fortune from his time at County. Elwood was very good for County. And County was very good for Elwood. I agree, my view is that he did very well out of County. That's just what he is quoted as saying.
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Post by David Schofield on Aug 30, 2023 13:02:32 GMT
I understand the way people feel and Salford Ammies original fans will feel they've lost something equally important and a fair few City fans have fond memories of their struggles but the town will gain much more than we've lost and I'm glad Mark Stott came along. I'm not for a second not glad Stott came in. Totally transformative for us as a football club. We'd been crying out for it for years. I just dearly wish he'd gone about things in a different way. But...his money. His club. If it works in the long term I don't doubt it will work big and we'll all be looking back and wondering what we were whinging about. Not a slight on Mark Stott - but he owns a business that operates OUR Club right now - he will not ever own the Club - no private “Owner” ever can or ever should - his business can end tomorrow, the Club will carry on
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Post by 57hattersyears on Aug 30, 2023 16:20:49 GMT
Elwood is quoted as saying he lost £100k a year over the whole period he was at the Club. Absolute nonsense, as I'm sure 57Hattersyears can confirm. He started taking the money he'd loaned back out of the club after the great deal of cash we made in 96-97. Then he sold to Kennedy for a very large profit over his initial investment. He made a fortune from his time at County. Elwood was very good for County. And County was very good for Elwood. You're right. Every single penny made in 96/97 went to repay Elwood. Wrote a piece for TTP (sometime in '98 iirc) analysing the accounts for that year and it's there in black and white. Which isn't a criticism of him at all. He'd loaned the cash and was entitled to take it back. Thereafter we went very quickly from signing Ian Moore for £800k to the likes of Neil Hardy and Dave Smith. He didnt put any meaningful support in after the first year in the Championship and was clearly hawking the Club around for a sale for a long time before the Kennedy debacle.
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TC
Contributor
Posts: 789
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Post by TC on Aug 31, 2023 7:51:35 GMT
I'm not for a second not glad Stott came in. Totally transformative for us as a football club. We'd been crying out for it for years. I just dearly wish he'd gone about things in a different way. But...his money. His club. If it works in the long term I don't doubt it will work big and we'll all be looking back and wondering what we were whinging about. Not a slight on Mark Stott - but he owns a business that operates OUR Club right now - he will not ever own the Club - no private “Owner” ever can or ever should - his business can end tomorrow, the Club will carry on I'm not great at understanding the corporate structure of the Vita empire but we are told that the debt at the club has been transferred to another entity. As long as his overall business is doing well or even OK, then I assume that Vita can manage this extra debt. However if things start going pear shaped, then they will be looking to make savings in the non-essential areas and the bit that got loaded with County's debt could be a prime candidate. If he put that into administration then the club would go with it. I think - unless I have got it all wrong.
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Post by muddywaters on Aug 31, 2023 8:27:23 GMT
Not a slight on Mark Stott - but he owns a business that operates OUR Club right now - he will not ever own the Club - no private “Owner” ever can or ever should - his business can end tomorrow, the Club will carry on I'm not great at understanding the corporate structure of the Vita empire but we are told that the debt at the club has been transferred to another entity. As long as his overall business is doing well or even OK, then I assume that Vita can manage this extra debt. However if things start going pear shaped, then they will be looking to make savings in the non-essential areas and the bit that got loaded with County's debt could be a prime candidate. If he put that into administration then the club would go with it. I think - unless I have got it all wrong. The debt is sat in a company that ultimately owns the club. That company is 100% owned by Mark Stott and is not part of the Vita empire (although the club directors tell us that it is, so that they don't have to disclose fully details). The club is the only real asset within the current group structure so there is no real reason not to give us more information. The Vita connection comes in, if the debt carried by topco is owed to Vita not Mark Stott personally. If the money is owed to Vita and Vita goes bust it doesn't necessarily follow that the club is bust, but the Administrator/Liquidator is responsible for collecting outstanding debts including the amount owed by the club. This is what happened at Notts County when Alan Hardy's company went bust, interesting there, the administrators only secured 10p in the pound so 90% of the club debt was written off.
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Post by herbiedumplings on Aug 31, 2023 8:28:45 GMT
I'm not great at understanding the corporate structure of the Vita empire but we are told that the debt at the club has been transferred to another entity. As long as his overall business is doing well or even OK, then I assume that Vita can manage this extra debt. However if things start going pear shaped, then they will be looking to make savings in the non-essential areas and the bit that got loaded with County's debt could be a prime candidate. If he put that into administration then the club would go with it. I think - unless I have got it all wrong. The debt is sat in a company that ultimately owns the club. That company is 100% owned by Mark Stott and is not part of the Vita empire (although the club directors tell us that it is, so that they don't have to disclose fully details). The club is the only real asset within the current group structure so there is no real reason not to give us more information. The Vita connection comes in, if the debt carried by topco is owed to Vita not Mark Stott personally. If the money is owed to Vita and Vita goes bust it doesn't necessarily follow that the club is bust, but the Administrator/Liquidator is responsible for collecting outstanding debts including the amount owed by the club. This is what happened at Notts County when Alan Hardy's company went bust, interesting there, the administrators only secured 10p in the pound so 90% of the club debt was written off. Starting to sound like a commercial radio ad a bit at the end there…
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Post by muddywaters on Aug 31, 2023 8:31:12 GMT
The debt is sat in a company that ultimately owns the club. That company is 100% owned by Mark Stott and is not part of the Vita empire (although the club directors tell us that it is, so that they don't have to disclose fully details). The club is the only real asset within the current group structure so there is no real reason not to give us more information. The Vita connection comes in, if the debt carried by topco is owed to Vita not Mark Stott personally. If the money is owed to Vita and Vita goes bust it doesn't necessarily follow that the club is bust, but the Administrator/Liquidator is responsible for collecting outstanding debts including the amount owed by the club. This is what happened at Notts County when Alan Hardy's company went bust, interesting there, the administrators only secured 10p in the pound so 90% of the club debt was written off. Starting to sound like a commercial radio ad a bit at the end there… Apologies, def got a bit of the 'Power of Parkers' about it !!!!
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Post by timberwolf on Aug 31, 2023 9:04:14 GMT
You're right. Every single penny made in 96/97 went to repay Elwood. Wrote a piece for TTP (sometime in '98 iirc) analysing the accounts for that year and it's there in black and white. Which isn't a criticism of him at all. He'd loaned the cash and was entitled to take it back. Thereafter we went very quickly from signing Ian Moore for £800k to the likes of Neil Hardy and Dave Smith. He didnt put any meaningful support in after the first year in the Championship and was clearly hawking the Club around for a sale for a long time before the Kennedy debacle. All i,ll say on the matter is elwood should have put the club up for sale at least a year before he did and we looked a better proposition then and might have avoided the next era. Kilners final summer budget consisted of poor old neil hardy and a few out of contract has beens who eventually got sidelined by palmer for kids. The fact that we did struggle again the season after was no shock to me. It was obvious he either had lost all interest or his money situation was much tighter.
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