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Post by Durango95 on Jan 12, 2021 20:50:01 GMT
Let's make it 6-7,000 and have the biggest and best stand at the side again.
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Post by edinburghhatter on Jan 12, 2021 21:15:01 GMT
Let's make it 6-7,000 and have the biggest and best stand at the side again. Nowt like ambition!
But I think we'd not own enough land there, and enhanced access at each end, especially the Railway end, would be even more essential...
The Railway end (or more precisely, the land behind it) is the key to all this happening on any sizeable scale.
Without the extra land, you could doubtless redevelop what's there in a more modern fashion, and achieve some increase in capacity, both of which would be good.
But nothing like achieving the full potential for EP.
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Post by Henry Pratt on Jan 12, 2021 21:59:16 GMT
Just to throw something into this discussion, I'm pretty sure that we were told (I know, this doesn't necessarily mean it's the case) that when the Pop Side was seated, it was done with a view to the seats not having to be re-done/flattened if and when a second tier was added. The rake was definitely steepened from the old terrace steps; seats weren't just bolted on.
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Post by County1999 on Jan 12, 2021 22:04:28 GMT
Just to throw something into this discussion, I'm pretty sure that we were told (I know, this doesn't necessarily mean it's the case) that when the Pop Side was seated, it was done with a view to the seats not having to be re-done/flattened if and when a second tier was added. The rake was definitely steepened from the old terrace steps; seats weren't just bolted on. Definitely recall from old VHS/DVD's that the old terrace was demolished down to the soil below 👍
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Post by Henry Pratt on Jan 12, 2021 22:11:30 GMT
Just to throw something into this discussion, I'm pretty sure that we were told (I know, this doesn't necessarily mean it's the case) that when the Pop Side was seated, it was done with a view to the seats not having to be re-done/flattened if and when a second tier was added. The rake was definitely steepened from the old terrace steps; seats weren't just bolted on. Definitely recall from old VHS/DVD's that the old terrace was demolished down to the soil below 👍 Yeah, it was a mix of tarmac and concrete risers, as I recall, when it was standing. It's been properly built up with concrete slabs now. Doesn't mean that there wouldn't be economies of scale if it was flattened as part of a new 2-tier 2-stand development including the RE (we can dream), but I'm pretty sure it's okay for a second tier to be added behind, and over the kiosks, if a quicker/cheaper solution was needed.
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Post by CB1883 on Jan 12, 2021 22:12:45 GMT
Been touched on in a few comments on the last couple of pages but lets make the stands steeper to bring fans as close to the pitch as possible.
Doing it this way should further improve the atmosphere and the experience of EP for us as well as making it a bit more ‘intimidating’ for visiting teams. Rotherham’s new ground is a good example of just how steep you can go.
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Post by Durango95 on Jan 12, 2021 22:28:18 GMT
It’ll be a full new stand, they said so early on (same with the RE). They’ll want to capitalise on space/opportunities and have facilities underneath and behind and actual executive boxes surely. We’ve got proper people in now, look at the work they’ve already done on the existing stands. None of this half arsed shit we’ve gotten far too used to!
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Post by edinburghhatter on Jan 12, 2021 23:17:00 GMT
Just to throw something into this discussion, I'm pretty sure that we were told (I know, this doesn't necessarily mean it's the case) that when the Pop Side was seated, it was done with a view to the seats not having to be re-done/flattened if and when a second tier was added. The rake was definitely steepened from the old terrace steps; seats weren't just bolted on. Definitely recall from old VHS/DVD's that the old terrace was demolished down to the soil below 👍 It was indeed taken back to the rubble base and re-profiled. Somewhere I've got a picture of the reinforcing mesh being laid and concrete poured over it. However, the fact remains that it's possible to achieve a steeper rake using other methods of support for the seating deck, and these would doubtless be employed if the current stand were extended backwards. The advantage of a complete rebuild from pitch level isn't primarily that the current seats would have a better view (although if steeper they would) but that you'd be able to access and use not only the space below the current seating deck, but also that below the whole concourse area as well. That's a whole lot of space! The earth mound on which the concourse area and its facilities are built also serves to support the back of the seating deck, and underneath is the potential for much usable space. But if you simply excavate it, you'd need to build a retaining wall behind the current seats. Which is why a complete rebuild may be preferable.
The same is true at the Railway end: the terrace is reinforced at the rear by a substantial, steep grass bank outside the concrete wall. Take that away, and the terrace would become unstable and in danger of collapse. (Do County actually own that particular strip, by the way? I suspect they may do!) In construction terms, it's a cheap but not very efficient use of space. A new stand at that end, built from pitch level, even if it only went as far back as the present fence, would be able to accommodate several more rows of seats, and they would be both at a steeper rake and and of the correct tread/riser dimensions for a seated stand. The current terrace was NOT designed for seating, but for standing. It isn't merely the lack of a roof which makes it a bit uncomfortable for the punters.
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Post by stevie57 on Jan 13, 2021 5:08:49 GMT
Lots of interesting and imaginative thoughts, but one thing does occur to me about developing the Pop side. To what degree will any substantial build on this side of the ground affect the natural - and necessary - sunlight on the pitch? We all know that at times, this side is already the most problematic area, particularly at this time of the year; perhaps any Pop side development will have to go hand in hand with some sort of underground pitch work/heating to solve any potential problems. Since the the third tier was added to the San Siro in Milan - I think for Italia 90 - their pitch has never been the same, and the problem was to do with blocking the sunlight. Smaller scale I know, but could be an issue.
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Post by bighead on Jan 13, 2021 5:52:57 GMT
Lots of interesting and imaginative thoughts, but one thing does occur to me about developing the Pop side. To what degree will any substantial build on this side of the ground affect the natural - and necessary - sunlight on the pitch? We all know that at times, this side is already the most problematic area, particularly at this time of the year; perhaps any Pop side development will have to go hand in hand with some sort of underground pitch work/heating to solve any potential problems. Since the the third tier was added to the San Siro in Milan - I think for Italia 90 - their pitch has never been the same, and the problem was to do with blocking the sunlight. Smaller scale I know, but could be an issue. I think our pitch definitely needs a complete overhaul. Monday was a freak event due to the weather. But the previous game it was bad in front of the popside. For me the drainage needs a proper upgrading.
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Post by hedleyverity on Jan 13, 2021 7:09:50 GMT
The drainage of the pitch was knackered for a while when the pop side was re-done last time
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Post by timberwolf on Jan 13, 2021 8:53:05 GMT
The old, bigger popside, did it go straight back at the Cheadle end of the stand, or was there a bit of an angle to compensate for the resser? You are correct, it wasn’t as deep at the CE of the popside. brentford have had similar problems due to lack of space in their new ground. this is hardly a major problem and adds to the character of the place. before any work is actually done the maximum EP size regarding gates is the main issue. too small which may give a problem later on and too large would lose its atmosphere. remember the old days of just around 2,000 gates in the pre jim NLN days. the place was dead even when we actually won the odd game.
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Post by Lee on Jan 13, 2021 9:16:33 GMT
Lots of interesting and imaginative thoughts, but one thing does occur to me about developing the Pop side. To what degree will any substantial build on this side of the ground affect the natural - and necessary - sunlight on the pitch? We all know that at times, this side is already the most problematic area, particularly at this time of the year; perhaps any Pop side development will have to go hand in hand with some sort of underground pitch work/heating to solve any potential problems. Since the the third tier was added to the San Siro in Milan - I think for Italia 90 - their pitch has never been the same, and the problem was to do with blocking the sunlight. Smaller scale I know, but could be an issue. I think our pitch definitely needs a complete overhaul. Monday was a freak event due to the weather. But the previous game it was bad in front of the popside. For me the drainage needs a proper upgrading. If the club read this then should they decide to rip the pitch up in the Summer I can put them in touch with the right people/man. Rectified Wembley after all the previous issues, permanently at United, done City and half the other PL clubs.
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Post by edinburghhatter on Jan 13, 2021 9:47:03 GMT
Lots of interesting and imaginative thoughts, but one thing does occur to me about developing the Pop side. To what degree will any substantial build on this side of the ground affect the natural - and necessary - sunlight on the pitch? We all know that at times, this side is already the most problematic area, particularly at this time of the year; perhaps any Pop side development will have to go hand in hand with some sort of underground pitch work/heating to solve any potential problems. Since the the third tier was added to the San Siro in Milan - I think for Italia 90 - their pitch has never been the same, and the problem was to do with blocking the sunlight. Smaller scale I know, but could be an issue. Good point: but virtually all grounds in the UK tend to have a stand, of some size, on the south side!
The use of more modern materials (a translucent roof, for example), ensuring adequate ventilation for the pitch, better drainage, and use of pitch lighting rigs would all help.
So, of course, would the installation of an artificial pitch.
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Post by tgttiw on Jan 13, 2021 10:29:00 GMT
When considering the pop side development I would think that the club needs to consider how to make some serious coin from the corporate spaces.
I would split this into a number of categories
Drinking before the match. Compete with the usual pre match pubs by having a decent space with decent beer accessible to everyone. The space under the Cheadle end would be excellent for that. Effectively swapping the 2 suits around.
Corporate space full length of the pitch. This again would generate cash.
Proper boxes for the prawn sandwich brigade. The directors box has its charm but I think we could do better.
I'm not saying forget about the fans but maximise corporate in new stands.
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