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Post by m20hatter on Jun 21, 2021 17:14:45 GMT
 took this the other night, the bottoms of the nearest seats look brand new. I’d say it looks like they’re replacing. |
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Post by stevie57 on Jun 21, 2021 17:27:12 GMT
Lots more chat about new this and new that, but the point I raised a couple of days ago about the ownership of EP, and the land at and around the Railway End does I think remain an issue; I simply cannot see anything other than cosmetic changes until the ownership of both EP and the land is sorted.
The talk of partnership with the Council is a debatable issue, in fact the Council is nothing more than 32 out of 63 votes, Stockport Council is essentially unstable body* in which nothing can be done unless any combination of 2 of the 3 main parties agree - this is not how to decide the future of a football club.
I cannot see Mark Stott putting major investment into EP as being suggested in this thread whilst the current uncertainties remain, nor do I think either the Councillors nor the Officers are competent to be making major decisions - beyond the statutory planning ones - regarding the future of County.
The Council did well with their access to cheap loans to secure the club’s future with the purchase of EP, but do we know actually know Mark Stott’s vision for the next steps?
The return of EP to the club, and the purchase of the Railway End land, are I think essential prerequisites to any real redevelopment of our home, without these things being in place, are we all in dreamland?
* 3rd party supporting 2nd party to run the Council, but supporting 1st party to defeat GMSF, et cetera.
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Post by edinburghhatter on Jun 21, 2021 21:33:56 GMT
The Council did well with their access to cheap loans to secure the club’s future with the purchase of EP, but do we know actually know Mark Stott’s vision for the next steps?
The return of EP to the club, and the purchase of the Railway End land, are I think essential prerequisites to any real redevelopment of our home, without these things being in place, are we all in dreamland?Well, if Mark Stott is ever short of inspiration for the development of EP, he could do worse than take a look at this thread! At the time of the takeover, less than 18 months ago, several posters on here, apparently more ITK than most of us, claimed to have seen and been impressed by Mark Stott's plans for the ground. Since then, nothing has emerged specifically on new-build... but there's been a lot of welcome and long-overdue refurbishment, in particular of what are actually the 2 most recent structures at EP: the Cheadle end and the (seated) Railway end. This probably makes sense, as the older bits (particularly the Pop side) will require considerably more work, and therefore expense. There is definitely the space, on club-owned land, to at least double the depth of the Pop side, and in so doing add decent concourse and corporate facilities. Adding another 2500 or so seats to that side should not be a showstopper, though it may require some creative thinking in terms of access. And on the Main stand side, demolishing the modern buildings would allow a basic extension at each end which could easily yield at least another 800 seats. That would take the capacity of EP up to 14,100. How much more does the club actually need? And all that is without even touching the Railway end.
Talking of which, if the Railway end were ever rebuilt as a "proper" stand (with facilities underneath, as opposed to just a basic earth bank with seats bolted on) it would certainly hold considerably more than its present capacity, as the seating deck would be both steeper and also able to extend right back to the rear fence. (And probably beyond, as there's an earth bank outside the fence which is integral to supporting the current terrace, and which I suspect actually is part of EP itself, rather than the adjoining property). But I agree that we're unlikely to see any more substantial construction work until EP is back in the club's ownership. I wish that the Council could get more involved, though in the present climate at least that's probably unlikely. Purchase of the ground, even without the land behind the RE, would send a massive signal of intent. It maybe wouldn't be the ideal solution, but if County did buy the ground back, there are real possibilities for staged redevelopment... even if the Railway end land question remains unresolved.  |
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Post by jkb9b on Jun 22, 2021 5:39:23 GMT
There’s no practical reason why we can’t build over part of the reservoir without impacting its water capacity. Christ if they can build over the Mersey we can build over a small part of a reservoir. Is the water capacity of the reservoir an issue at all? As far as I know the reservoirs were built for Sykes' Bleach Works which are long gone and the one nearest EP is only used for fishing these days. |
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Post by edinburghhatter on Jun 22, 2021 7:10:44 GMT
There’s no practical reason why we can’t build over part of the reservoir without impacting its water capacity. Christ if they can build over the Mersey we can build over a small part of a reservoir. Is the water capacity of the reservoir an issue at all? As far as I know the reservoirs were built for Sykes' Bleach Works which are long gone and the one nearest EP is only used for fishing these days. Some of the suggestions put forward in this thread are verging on pure over-the-top fantasy... we're not trying to build another Wembley! It's all too easy to spend other people's money for them.
If anything new ever gets built behind the Pop side, there'd be absolutely no need to go anywhere near the reservoir! There's enough land within the EP boundary fence for anything County would need. The further back you go, the more any structure and the associated land would cost.
IMHO, we should be talking about tidying up the current facilities at EP, and enhancing/replacing them where necessary and feasible. Which will almost certainly result in a modest increase in capacity... but also (and equally importantly) in much better facilities and a more comfortable experience for fans. Which includes away fans: their money is surely as welcome to the club as ours. And oddly enough, despite the facts that County don't actually own EP at present, and the RE land question remains an issue, the refurbishment programme under Mark Stott's ownership that has started within the last year seems to be delivering just those sorts of off-field improvement...
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Post by Henry Pratt on Jun 22, 2021 7:30:58 GMT
Is the water capacity of the reservoir an issue at all? As far as I know the reservoirs were built for Sykes' Bleach Works which are long gone and the one nearest EP is only used for fishing these days. Some of the suggestions put forward in this thread are verging on pure over-the-top fantasy... we're not trying to build another Wembley! It's all too easy to spend other people's money for them.
If anything new ever gets built behind the Pop side, there'd be absolutely no need to go anywhere near the reservoir! If you wanted to build the Jim Gannon Stand with the same depth as the CE, your south-west corner will be - just - in the reservoir. Have a look on satellite view on Google. Boils down, I suppose, to whether you think a 10-12,000 ground is big enough for what we might achieve with Stott's money. He's declared Championship himself. If we wanted to get towards 16-20,000, we will need to think about the reservoir. |
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Post by timberwolf on Jun 22, 2021 7:50:47 GMT
Boils down, I suppose, to whether you think a 10-12,000 ground is big enough for what we might achieve with Stott's money. He's declared Championship himself. If we wanted to get towards 16-20,000, we will need to think about the reservoir. if and its a big if we ever reach the championship and larger a capacity we get will really be for away fans from the well supported clubs in the north and midlands. how many sell outs did we actually have back in the days of second tier football anyway. take city out of it and there cannot have been many. we obviously would increase the number of home fans but not by the numbers a lot of us expect. is it really cost effective building something more than a 15,000 capacity and for me thats pushing it. |
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Post by Henry Pratt on Jun 22, 2021 8:12:42 GMT
Boils down, I suppose, to whether you think a 10-12,000 ground is big enough for what we might achieve with Stott's money. He's declared Championship himself. If we wanted to get towards 16-20,000, we will need to think about the reservoir. if and its a big if we ever reach the championship and larger a capacity we get will really be for away fans from the well supported clubs in the north and midlands. how many sell outs did we actually have back in the days of second tier football anyway. take city out of it and there cannot have been many. we obviously would increase the number of home fans but not by the numbers a lot of us expect. is it really cost effective building something more than a 15,000 capacity and for me thats pushing it. Depends on whether you aspire to be Bournemouth or Barnsley. |
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Post by edinburghhatter on Jun 22, 2021 8:19:37 GMT
Some of the suggestions put forward in this thread are verging on pure over-the-top fantasy... we're not trying to build another Wembley! It's all too easy to spend other people's money for them.
If anything new ever gets built behind the Pop side, there'd be absolutely no need to go anywhere near the reservoir! If you wanted to build the Jim Gannon Stand with the same depth as the CE, your south-west corner will be - just - in the reservoir. Have a look on satellite view on Google. Boils down, I suppose, to whether you think a 10-12,000 ground is big enough for what we might achieve with Stott's money. He's declared Championship himself. If we wanted to get towards 16-20,000, we will need to think about the reservoir. But stands can be tapered slightly to fit sites! They don't all have to be rectangular.
The current Pop side seats (the dark blue roof) hold 2400. Just looking at the area taken up by the toilet/refreshment block (light blue roof) and the alfresco "concourse" I think it's reasonable to say there's room for an upper tier - possibly overhanging the lower one slightly - which would easily seat at least 3,500. Which would take the current EP capacity of 10,800 up to 14,300. Add in at least 800 by extending at each end of the Main stand and you're just over the 15,000 mark.
That's a bit more than 10-12,000! And yes, I do think the higher figure (15,000 minimum) is what the club should ultimately be aiming for. But it'll cost a lot just to get there, so I'd settle for small sensibly-paced increments.
And as I've said before, none of this involves doing anything more at the Railway end, however desirable that may be. But if the land did suddenly become available, I guess you'd be looking at a potential increase of maybe 3,000 at that end.
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Post by Durango95 on Jun 22, 2021 8:46:51 GMT
Boils down, I suppose, to whether you think a 10-12,000 ground is big enough for what we might achieve with Stott's money. He's declared Championship himself. If we wanted to get towards 16-20,000, we will need to think about the reservoir. if and its a big if we ever reach the championship and larger a capacity we get will really be for away fans from the well supported clubs in the north and midlands. how many sell outs did we actually have back in the days of second tier football anyway. take city out of it and there cannot have been many. we obviously would increase the number of home fans but not by the numbers a lot of us expect. is it really cost effective building something more than a 15,000 capacity and for me thats pushing it. Quite a few clubs brought big followings back in the day. Sunderland, Forest, Palace, Coventry all immediately spring to mind for bringing daft amounts of supporters. On two occasions Sheffield Wednesday had what was probably illegal unsafe numbers in the Pop Side filling the steps and the front gangway. |
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Post by stevie57 on Jun 22, 2021 8:48:05 GMT
If you wanted to build the Jim Gannon Stand with the same depth as the CE, your south-west corner will be - just - in the reservoir. Have a look on satellite view on Google. Boils down, I suppose, to whether you think a 10-12,000 ground is big enough for what we might achieve with Stott's money. He's declared Championship himself. If we wanted to get towards 16-20,000, we will need to think about the reservoir. But stands can be tapered slightly to fit sites! They don't all have to be rectangular.
The current Pop side seats (the dark blue roof) hold 2400. Just looking at the area taken up by the toilet/refreshment block (light blue roof) and the alfresco "concourse" I think it's reasonable to say there's room for an upper tier - possibly overhanging the lower one slightly - which would easily seat at least 3,500. Which would take the current EP capacity of 10,800 up to 14,300. Add in at least 800 by extending at each end of the Main stand and you're just over the 15,000 mark.
That's a bit more than 10-12,000! And yes, I do think the higher figure (15,000 minimum) is what the club should ultimately be aiming for. But it'll cost a lot just to get there, so I'd settle for small sensibly-paced increments.
And as I've said before, none of this involves doing anything more at the Railway end, however desirable that may be. But if the land did suddenly become available, I guess you'd be looking at a potential increase of maybe 3,000 at that end.
Some thoughtful contributions, thanks; the only thing I would add regarding any Pop Side development is that even at its current modest height, in winter the lack of any sun on that side of the pitch is often a problem compared to the other side. Even though we’ve done exceptionally well to get a number of games on last season, the quality of the surface on that side was sometimes not great. No doubt something could be done to alleviate any problem in this area if there is any development, but as I say, it’s always quite noticeably the worst part of the pitch as it is. The quality of the ‘grass’ (I’m learning the new lingo) is likely to be a priority for the foreseeable future. |
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Post by Durango95 on Jun 22, 2021 8:54:02 GMT
If you wanted to build the Jim Gannon Stand with the same depth as the CE, your south-west corner will be - just - in the reservoir. Have a look on satellite view on Google. Boils down, I suppose, to whether you think a 10-12,000 ground is big enough for what we might achieve with Stott's money. He's declared Championship himself. If we wanted to get towards 16-20,000, we will need to think about the reservoir. But stands can be tapered slightly to fit sites! They don't all have to be rectangular.
The current Pop side seats (the dark blue roof) hold 2400. Just looking at the area taken up by the toilet/refreshment block (light blue roof) and the alfresco "concourse" I think it's reasonable to say there's room for an upper tier - possibly overhanging the lower one slightly - which would easily seat at least 3,500. Which would take the current EP capacity of 10,800 up to 14,300. Add in at least 800 by extending at each end of the Main stand and you're just over the 15,000 mark.
That's a bit more than 10-12,000! And yes, I do think the higher figure (15,000 minimum) is what the club should ultimately be aiming for. But it'll cost a lot just to get there, so I'd settle for small sensibly-paced increments.
And as I've said before, none of this involves doing anything more at the Railway end, however desirable that may be. But if the land did suddenly become available, I guess you'd be looking at a potential increase of maybe 3,000 at that end.
You talk about posts being fantasy and then you suggest without irony, adding a tier onto an outdated, crumbling, restricted view stand as if that’s both feasible and doable. The whole stand would need to be flattened and replaced with a big, new improved stand with modern day income generating facilities in-line with progressing as a club. The talk of filling in part of the reservoir is not fantasy at all, it would enable for the first time ever to be able to have full access around the ground, including say for a large car park for coaches and others extending the CE car park around into what would be a vast space behind any new development. It’s called thinking bigger, which coincides with the owners 7 year plan. |
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Post by tgttiw on Jun 22, 2021 8:57:45 GMT
But stands can be tapered slightly to fit sites! They don't all have to be rectangular.
The current Pop side seats (the dark blue roof) hold 2400. Just looking at the area taken up by the toilet/refreshment block (light blue roof) and the alfresco "concourse" I think it's reasonable to say there's room for an upper tier - possibly overhanging the lower one slightly - which would easily seat at least 3,500. Which would take the current EP capacity of 10,800 up to 14,300. Add in at least 800 by extending at each end of the Main stand and you're just over the 15,000 mark.
That's a bit more than 10-12,000! And yes, I do think the higher figure (15,000 minimum) is what the club should ultimately be aiming for. But it'll cost a lot just to get there, so I'd settle for small sensibly-paced increments.
And as I've said before, none of this involves doing anything more at the Railway end, however desirable that may be. But if the land did suddenly become available, I guess you'd be looking at a potential increase of maybe 3,000 at that end.
Some thoughtful contributions, thanks; the only thing I would add regarding any Pop Side development is that even at its current modest height, in winter the lack of any sun on that side of the pitch is often a problem compared to the other side. Even though we’ve done exceptionally well to get a number of games on last season, the quality of the surface on that side was sometimes not great. No doubt something could be done to alleviate any problem in this area if there is any development, but as I say, it’s always quite noticeably the worst part of the pitch as it is. The quality of the ‘grass’ (I’m learning the new lingo) is likely to be a priority for the foreseeable future. I think whatever happens corporate will have to be a big consideration. We have a property developer as chairman. He's just built some thumping great big student halls in Leeds (Woodhouse Lane) If you know Leeds. Stockport is trying to get people to move to the town centre based on the speed at which one can get to Manchester by train. I can imagine a joint development with housing somewhere in stockport Town centre. Putting things in like bars, gyms and restaurants would then make sense for putting coffers into the club 24/7 and improved corporate would take us to the next level. I love ep, some of my happiest moments in the last 25 years have been in ep. However I'm probably in the minority to say I wouldn't be opposed to such a move. |
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Post by edinburghhatter on Jun 22, 2021 9:10:44 GMT
But stands can be tapered slightly to fit sites! They don't all have to be rectangular.
The current Pop side seats (the dark blue roof) hold 2400. Just looking at the area taken up by the toilet/refreshment block (light blue roof) and the alfresco "concourse" I think it's reasonable to say there's room for an upper tier - possibly overhanging the lower one slightly - which would easily seat at least 3,500. Which would take the current EP capacity of 10,800 up to 14,300. Add in at least 800 by extending at each end of the Main stand and you're just over the 15,000 mark.
That's a bit more than 10-12,000! And yes, I do think the higher figure (15,000 minimum) is what the club should ultimately be aiming for. But it'll cost a lot just to get there, so I'd settle for small sensibly-paced increments.
And as I've said before, none of this involves doing anything more at the Railway end, however desirable that may be. But if the land did suddenly become available, I guess you'd be looking at a potential increase of maybe 3,000 at that end.
Some thoughtful contributions, thanks; the only thing I would add regarding any Pop Side development is that even at its current modest height, in winter the lack of any sun on that side of the pitch is often a problem compared to the other side. Even though we’ve done exceptionally well to get a number of games on last season, the quality of the surface on that side was sometimes not great. No doubt something could be done to alleviate any problem in this area if there is any development, but as I say, it’s always quite noticeably the worst part of the pitch as it is. The quality of the ‘grass’ (I’m learning the new lingo) is likely to be a priority for the foreseeable future. Good point about the pitch, although just about any decent-sized ground in the UK will have some sort of stand on the south side, and some are enormous, compared to EP! How do they cope? Worth noting, too, that the current Pop side roof is much higher than it actually needs to be. When it was built in 1956, the Pop side stretched much further back and up, and the new roof had to take account of that. So the roof of any new stand on that side, while obviously higher than the present one, would not necessarily need to be quite as high as one might suppose... and of course, modern translucent roofing materials would be employed, rather than the heavy asbestos sheeting of the current stand. |
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Post by Cale Green Hatter on Jun 22, 2021 9:22:07 GMT
A few years ago Portman Road was redeveloped at both the North and South ends of the ground. Prior to the changes both ends were similarish in size to the Railway end. The South stand had little room for building outwards due to various other building very close by and the North stand had a road running directly behind it. Both new stands were built upwards with the physical footprint (if that's the right phrase) remaining the same. The 2 tiered stands bore no resemblance to the ones they replaced with the upper tier considerably larger than the lower ones.
From a personal point of view I feel the Railway End should be the priority area for any redevelopment and a roof would change the feel of the ground.
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