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Post by bigmartin on Jun 1, 2020 19:12:19 GMT
And still not a word from any opposition spokesman saying what actions they would have taken.! Why would they? What benefit is it to anyone? They can't implement it even if they did. Do you not understand how it works by now? It's all Labour's fault.
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Post by bigmartin on Jun 1, 2020 19:15:34 GMT
@ Martin I’ll throw your own words back at you to answer this. members3.boardhost.com/marionsboard/msg/archive/1584643959.htmlBear in mind when you posted that, pretty much the only flights operating were rescue flights bringing people home to the U.K. Business travel had stopped, and my job for the middle two weeks of March involved frantically grabbing seats on the last flight departing from Rwanda / Costa Rica and various other places as various flights were cancelled at short notice. Would you have considered complete lockdown of the U.K. appropriate at that time? That's a fair criticism is that. I do clearly recall I had a noticeable wobble back at that time as the numbers didn't seem to stack up.
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Post by HTC on Jun 1, 2020 19:26:18 GMT
And I guess that’s my main point.
In hindsight, we can see a lot more than is apparent at the time.
There will be things the government has f*cked up really badly (sending people home from hospital to care homes / potentially reopening shops next week)
There will be things where they’ve done as well as realistically possible (furlough / potentially school reopening)
There will be things that were based on reasonable information / beliefs at the time that now look to be incorrect (exact date of lockdown)
I’m all for hammering the government on the first. I’m just not sure we’re in a position to answer definitively on the second or third just yet.
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Post by badgersc on Jun 1, 2020 19:43:10 GMT
And I guess that’s my main point. In hindsight, we can see a lot more than is apparent at the time. There will be things the government has f*cked up really badly (sending people home from hospital to care homes / potentially reopening shops next week) There will be things where they’ve done as well as realistically possible (furlough / potentially school reopening) There will be things that were based on reasonable information / beliefs at the time that now look to be incorrect (exact date of lockdown) I’m all for hammering the government on the first. I’m just not sure we’re in a position to answer definitively on the second or third just yet. Who is responsible for the care home approach? Was it really just the government? Or all sorts of other bodies such as the NHS and phe? Combination? Genuine question. I've said it before but when the enquiry is held I believe we'll find many significant man stakes and shortcomings in many more places than the government.
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Post by HTC on Jun 1, 2020 19:53:49 GMT
The care home problem is part of a long term failure to develop a strategy for social care, exacerbated by austerity.
The problem is the solutions to the long term issues are all politically unpalatable - May nearly lost an election to Corbyn in large part due to even suggesting that something might need to be done.
That in turn leads to a situation where nobody really takes political responsibility for care homes, yet the NHS is sanctified, hence the initial approach all being developed in terms of how the NHS could best deal with the consequences, completely forgetting the challenges that would appear in other sectors.
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Post by Mozzer on Jun 1, 2020 20:00:56 GMT
Certainly we can use hindsight, but let's not pretend a lot of this wasn't being criticised at the time, because it was. The government was also busy telling us that now wasn't the time to criticise (except, of course, if they'd listened to some of it they wouldn't have made some of these mistakes).
Also, plenty of us were warning about the medium and long term dangers of austerity for years (and being laughed at for it). They don't get a free pass on that because something has now come along to expose some of them.
I'll be clear. I don't think everything they've done is a mistake and I don't think every mistake was avoidable. I do, however, think too many avoidable errors have been made.
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Post by vicar on Jun 2, 2020 9:36:24 GMT
I'll be clear. I don't think everything they've done is a mistake and I don't think every mistake was avoidable. I do, however, think too many avoidable errors have been made. What have they got right?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 9:56:09 GMT
I'll be clear. I don't think everything they've done is a mistake and I don't think every mistake was avoidable. I do, however, think too many avoidable errors have been made. What have they got right? In your personal opinion Vicar have they done anything right or is 100% everything they have done wrong?
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Post by vicar on Jun 2, 2020 10:29:19 GMT
What have they got right? In your personal opinion Vicar have they done anything right or is 100% everything they have done wrong? Locked down too late. lied about achieving their own target of 100,000 tests a day, failed to join the EU procurement scheme. ordered ventilators from a vacuum cleaner manufacturer, chief advisor telling Porkies, Johnson playing it down and shaking hands with everyone, quarantine 3 months too late, 2nd highest number of deaths in the world, lack of PPE and a half arsed lockdown which was flouted. On the plus side, well I honestly can't think of anything.
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Post by timberwolf on Jun 2, 2020 10:46:10 GMT
it might have been better for the country as a whole if a wartime type of government by all major parties had been introduced. think the vast majority of non tories dislike the tory leader up to thatcher proportions. luckily for the government is that the majority of the population have more or less followed all guidelines. with a temporary all party coalition in power there would be less finger pointing at certain individuals and more positive outlook to any mistakes that have been made. doubt any politician have actually made mistakes on purpose when a decision was firstly made.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 10:48:29 GMT
Don't forget moving sick, elderly people from hospital to care homes to protect the NHS but exposing them and others to increased chance of infection. Trying to cover up the carnage in care homes by not including deaths in these homes in the official figures.
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Post by vicar on Jun 2, 2020 11:17:26 GMT
Don't forget moving sick, elderly people from hospital to care homes to protect the NHS but exposing them and others to increased chance of infection. Trying to cover up the carnage in care homes by not including deaths in these homes in the official figures. The lies and the cover ups make it so much worse, that nonsense we all put up with so they could reach 100,000 tests a day, counting tests sent out just to hit target on a particular day.
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Post by Nik on Jun 2, 2020 11:20:25 GMT
Don't forget moving sick, elderly people from hospital to care homes to protect the NHS but exposing them and others to increased chance of infection. Trying to cover up the carnage in care homes by not including deaths in these homes in the official figures. The lies and the cover ups make it so much worse, that nonsense we all put up with so they could reach 100,000 tests a day, counting tests sent out just to hit target on a particular day. Also counting a throat and a nose swab as two separate tests.
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Post by vicar on Jun 2, 2020 16:56:07 GMT
The lies and the cover ups make it so much worse, that nonsense we all put up with so they could reach 100,000 tests a day, counting tests sent out just to hit target on a particular day. Also counting a throat and a nose swab as two separate tests. I didn't know that, they've gone down in My estimation.
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Post by hedleyverity on Jun 2, 2020 17:53:13 GMT
Fiddling the test figures was a blatently political act, in case anyone is accusing critics of 'playing politics'
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