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Post by Nik on Jul 5, 2020 21:09:30 GMT
You say that and yet this happens to two elite athletes because they're black. Weapons search for no reason with a 3 month old child in the car and they were also accused off-video of their car reeking of weed yet the Police refused to do a drugs test on them when challenged on it. Systematic racism is alive and well in the UK; no point denying it. In London I don’t think it’s a bad thing that people are being stopped and searched. When you look at the figures for knife crime it’s as grim as anywhere in the world. When you look at the articles relating to these incidents a lot of them do seem to be within the black community. I don’t think it can be then classed as police racism if members of the same black community are being stopped and searched at an increased rate in comparison to other parts of the UK. If it helps take one knife off the street and help save a life then it’s a good thing. A young driver of a high end car is more likely to be stopped than a middle aged man in the same car or a young driver of a 1995 Nissan Micra. Yes, a lot of the time there will be a perfectly reasonable explanation on how they can afford it but you can guarantee that on occasions they discover items that can pinpoint that car to illegal activity. Can you not see why your last paragraph is the problem? You're essentially saying that if they should target 3% of the population for stop and searches because if you search enough people you're bound to find something. All the while that middle-aged white man with 8kg of heroin in the boot just drives on because the police are too busy targeting young black lads.
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Trump
Jul 5, 2020 21:15:34 GMT
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Post by CB1883 on Jul 5, 2020 21:15:34 GMT
In London I don’t think it’s a bad thing that people are being stopped and searched. When you look at the figures for knife crime it’s as grim as anywhere in the world. When you look at the articles relating to these incidents a lot of them do seem to be within the black community. I don’t think it can be then classed as police racism if members of the same black community are being stopped and searched at an increased rate in comparison to other parts of the UK. If it helps take one knife off the street and help save a life then it’s a good thing. A young driver of a high end car is more likely to be stopped than a middle aged man in the same car or a young driver of a 1995 Nissan Micra. Yes, a lot of the time there will be a perfectly reasonable explanation on how they can afford it but you can guarantee that on occasions they discover items that can pinpoint that car to illegal activity. Can you not see why your last paragraph is the problem? You're essentially saying that if they should target 3% of the population for stop and searches because if you search enough people you're bound to find something. All the while that middle-aged white man with 8kg of heroin in the boot just drives on because the police are too busy targeting young black lads. Where in that final paragraph did I even mention race? I mentioned age to try and use an example where someone is stopped and searched at a higher rate for something other than the colour of their skin. Looking at your responses to almost every comment on here Nik it’s clear to see you feel strongly on the subject but trying to put everything negative done against someone of colour as racism is also a problem that needs to be addressed. Not everything that an individual does to an individual of a different colour is racism. If I threw an egg an two City fans, one being white, one being black, would I be racist because one of them was black? No.
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Trump
Jul 5, 2020 21:38:24 GMT
via mobile
Post by Nik on Jul 5, 2020 21:38:24 GMT
Can you not see why your last paragraph is the problem? You're essentially saying that if they should target 3% of the population for stop and searches because if you search enough people you're bound to find something. All the while that middle-aged white man with 8kg of heroin in the boot just drives on because the police are too busy targeting young black lads. Where in that final paragraph did I even mention race? I mentioned age to try and use an example where someone is stopped and searched at a higher rate for something other than the colour of their skin. Looking at your responses to almost every comment on here Nik it’s clear to see you feel strongly on the subject but trying to put everything negative done against someone of colour as racism is also a problem that needs to be addressed. Not everything that an individual does to an individual of a different colour is racism. If I threw an egg an two City fans, one being white, one being black, would I be racist because one of them was black? No. I think it was a fair assumption to make, considering that was the basis of your previous paragraphs. Systematic racism isn't about individual situations with individual people, it's an overall prejudice. It's been said time and again in this and other threads, these are facts. They are supported by numerous statistics that should a disproportionate number of black people are searched, arrested and killed by the police. If you can't see past individual situations to see the wider issue then I don't know what to tell you.
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Trump
Jul 6, 2020 10:08:06 GMT
Post by timberwolf on Jul 6, 2020 10:08:06 GMT
Systematic racism isn't about individual situations with individual people, it's an overall prejudice. It's been said time and again in this and other threads, these are facts. They are supported by numerous statistics that should a disproportionate number of black people are searched, arrested and killed by the police. If you can't see past individual situations to see the wider issue then I don't know what to tell you. one of the problems is from both sides of the arguement. one side posts a video then the other trumps it with theirs. same with any facts and figures that come out. stop and search of black people. one side will say the majority of crime of certain types is done by them. the other deny it and both have all the relevent stats to back up their claims. the only way things will ever change is when a drug dealer or stabber is called just that and not a black white or whatever colour is mentioned. quicker all white people look at all others as just people and nothing else and black people take their chip off their shoulder then it will be a better world to live in.
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Trump
Jul 6, 2020 10:37:12 GMT
Post by Nik on Jul 6, 2020 10:37:12 GMT
quicker all white people look at all others as just people and nothing else and black people take their chip off their shoulder then it will be a better world to live in. That's just a contradiction though isn't it? Until the first thing happens, the second thing can't/won't/shouldn't.
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Trump
Jul 6, 2020 11:03:39 GMT
via mobile
Post by desmond on Jul 6, 2020 11:03:39 GMT
You say that and yet this happens to two elite athletes because they're black. Weapons search for no reason with a 3 month old child in the car and they were also accused off-video of their car reeking of weed yet the Police refused to do a drugs test on them when challenged on it. Systematic racism is alive and well in the UK; no point denying it. If this was Tommy Robinson being pulled over and manhandled by the police would people be so eager to defend him? Absolutely not. There would be posts calling him every name under the sun and saying he deserved everything coming to him. Yet every video I've seen that involves a person of colour and the police is somehow proof of systematic racism. But we only have the video clip and someones word for what went on. Not saying the police weren't out of order but without knowing the full facts we are in no position to make a full judgement. Didn’t the police have dashcam evidence of their car driving on the wrong side of the road and then speeding off when asked to stop ?
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Trump
Jul 6, 2020 11:14:12 GMT
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Post by desmond on Jul 6, 2020 11:14:12 GMT
If this was Tommy Robinson being pulled over and manhandled by the police would people be so eager to defend him? Absolutely not. There would be posts calling him every name under the sun and saying he deserved everything coming to him. Yet every video I've seen that involves a person of colour and the police is somehow proof of systematic racism. But we only have the video clip and someones word for what went on. Not saying the police weren't out of order but without knowing the full facts we are in no position to make a full judgement. Didn’t the police have dashcam evidence of their car driving on the wrong side of the road and then speeding off when asked to stop ? Worth a read.... www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/53301318
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Trump
Jul 6, 2020 11:18:38 GMT
Post by Nik on Jul 6, 2020 11:18:38 GMT
If this was Tommy Robinson being pulled over and manhandled by the police would people be so eager to defend him? Absolutely not. There would be posts calling him every name under the sun and saying he deserved everything coming to him. Yet every video I've seen that involves a person of colour and the police is somehow proof of systematic racism. But we only have the video clip and someones word for what went on. Not saying the police weren't out of order but without knowing the full facts we are in no position to make a full judgement. Didn’t the police have dashcam evidence of their car driving on the wrong side of the road and then speeding off when asked to stop ? That seems to be the case, providing that footage exists as they say. Doesn't explain searching them for weapons or a false drugs claim though.
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Trump
Jul 6, 2020 11:18:48 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2020 11:18:48 GMT
These are the deaths in the USA for the month of June with Police involvement. I make no comment but leave it to others for their reaction.
MALES - 76 - comprised of
ASIAN - 2 BLACK - 16 HISPANIC - 12 NATIVE AMERICAN - 1 UNKNOWN RACE - 21 WHITE - 24
With the oldest being 81 whilst the youngest being 18
FEMALE - 7 - comprised of
ASIAN - 1 UNKNOWN RACE - 2 WHITE - 4
With the oldest being 42 whilst the youngest being 26
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Post by Nik on Jul 6, 2020 11:28:04 GMT
These are the deaths in the USA for the month of June with Police involvement. I make no comment but leave it to others for their reaction. MALES - 76 - comprised of ASIAN - 2 BLACK - 16 HISPANIC - 12 NATIVE AMERICAN - 1 UNKNOWN RACE - 21 WHITE - 24 With the oldest being 81 whilst the youngest being 18 FEMALE - 7 - comprised of ASIAN - 1 UNKNOWN RACE - 2 WHITE - 4 With the oldest being 42 whilst the youngest being 26 Totals: Asian: 3 Black: 16 Hispanic: 12 Native American: 1 Unknown: 23 White: 28 Demographic split: Asian: 16,989,540 (5.3%) Black: 39,445,495 (12.3%) Hispanic: 56,510,571 (17.6%) Native American: 515,522 (0.2%) White: 197,277,789 (61.5%) Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#RaceDeaths per 1,000,000 people: Asian: 1.77 Black: 4.05 Hispanic: 2.12 Native American: 1.93 White: 1.41
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Trump
Jul 6, 2020 11:37:43 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2020 11:37:43 GMT
Where do the unknown fit in?
Until you establish that, the wiki figures are meaningless are they not?
Do you split the unknown in the same ratio as those numbers shown in June?
I could do the exercise for every month this year but I have better things to do but what would those figures show?
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Post by Nik on Jul 6, 2020 11:43:33 GMT
Where do the unknown fit in? Until you establish that, the wiki figures are meaningless are they not? Do you split the unknown in the same ratio as those numbers shown in June? I could do the exercise for every month this year but I have better things to do but what would those figures show? I left them out as you can't determine which race they fit into. The figures aren't a ratio of the total deaths in June though, they're the deaths per race against the demographic per race. They're only compared against their own race in the calculation. Even if we give every advantage to the opposing side of my argument and we were to assume all 23 unknown deaths were white, bringing that figure up to 51, the deaths per 1,000,000 would still only be 2.58. I'm almost certain that if the figures were run for every month this year, it'd show a similar pattern; black people are more likely to die at the hands of the police in America than any other race.
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Trump
Jul 6, 2020 13:40:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2020 13:40:09 GMT
Do you think number of deaths by police is proportionate to the number of crimes committed?
I really do think that due to the recent BLM actions we, as the human race, are now more racially divided than we have been for sometime. The whole BLM movement is divisive and whilst that was never the intention it is becoming more of a problem for society than the problem it was created to address.
We are moving backwards, sadly.
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Trump
Jul 6, 2020 13:46:29 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2020 13:46:29 GMT
I haven't gone into very specific details but what I've established generally is that White crime is probably double that of Black crime.
When it comes to what type of crime there are some with White greater than Black & vice versa.
Of course there are varying differences in the place (town) that they are committed.
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Post by Mozzer on Jul 6, 2020 14:40:20 GMT
Do you think number of deaths by police is proportionate to the number of crimes committed? I really do think that due to the recent BLM actions we, as the human race, are now more racially divided than we have been for sometime. The whole BLM movement is divisive and whilst that was never the intention it is becoming more of a problem for society than the problem it was created to address. We are moving backwards, sadly. We are. Not for the reasons you suggest though. The rise of racism is down to racists, not those who oppose them.
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