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Post by kennypowers on Jul 18, 2020 12:40:55 GMT
She’s 20 years old now. Would you want your children held responsible for their actions at that age to such an extent the whole country abandons her? Have you ever seen photos of 12 year old soldiers, with AK47s? War children? Children being used as soldiers is a worldwide problem. Who’s to blame for what they’ve done? Is it the child? I don’t have an answer. Only thing I know is that the child is not to blame. To be honest, I find it more than a little offensive that you’re comparing a teenager who grew up with loads of opportunities in the wealthiest city in one of the wealthiest countries in the world to a small child who has watched their parents be raped / murdered by a militia like the LRA and forced to join up or be killed. the situations are not at all comparable. I think she should be allowed back in the country because I don’t think the state should be able to remove citizenship from anyone and leave someone stateless. It’s a basic human rights apply to all humans, even the scummy ones issue. Wealthiest Country? Wealthiest City? One third of the children in this country live in poverty. Growing up isn’t easy for a lot of young people and sets many off on a dangerous trajectory. Yet people like Phillip Green get given tax breaks, can take people’s pensions and get knighted. But of course the poor and the marginalised are to blame |
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Post by HTC on Jul 18, 2020 15:34:02 GMT
Surely that’s just your basic relative poverty / absolute poverty argument though?
Would you rather be a 15 year old girl in a ropey bit of East London, with the associated free education and healthcare, or a 15 year old girl in a ropey bit of Dhaka, with the associated forced marriage?
‘Going off the rails’ doesn’t usually involve joining a force that wants to make every woman in the world live in the latter situation.
For reference Philip Green is also an arsehole. Philip Green (much like Begum / Shipman) doesn’t deserve his citizenship being removed either.
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Post by hedleyverity on Jul 18, 2020 15:46:48 GMT
Phillip Green should pay his taxes as part of being a citizen
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2020 15:54:36 GMT
To be honest, I find it more than a little offensive that you’re comparing a teenager who grew up with loads of opportunities in the wealthiest city in one of the wealthiest countries in the world to a small child who has watched their parents be raped / murdered by a militia like the LRA and forced to join up or be killed. the situations are not at all comparable. I think she should be allowed back in the country because I don’t think the state should be able to remove citizenship from anyone and leave someone stateless. It’s a basic human rights apply to all humans, even the scummy ones issue. Wealthiest Country? Wealthiest City? One third of the children in this country live in poverty. Growing up isn’t easy for a lot of young people and sets many off on a dangerous trajectory. Yet people like Phillip Green get given tax breaks, can take people’s pensions and get knighted. But of course the poor and the marginalised are to blame Some of your questions are answered - The UK is the worlds 4th wealthiest county and London is the world 5th wealthiest city. Around four million children are currently living in poverty in the UK today  |
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Post by HTC on Jul 18, 2020 15:55:09 GMT
Are we really going down a route where not paying your taxes / generally being a corrupt w*nker of the highest order is morally equivalent to torturing and murdering those who don’t share your beliefs?
It’s a novel approach, I’ll give you that...
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Post by kennypowers on Jul 18, 2020 16:34:56 GMT
Are we really going down a route where not paying your taxes / generally being a corrupt w*nker of the highest order is morally equivalent to torturing and murdering those who don’t share your beliefs? It’s a novel approach, I’ll give you that... That’s not what I’m saying though, is it? |
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Post by HTC on Jul 18, 2020 17:48:53 GMT
I’m obviously missing something.
I agree that some people in Britain don’t have great lives, and that those people are more likely to be poor / not white.
However, I’m not seeing the leap to ‘therefore it’s quite understandable / acceptable for a girl to spend her teenage years torturing Yazidis 3000 miles away from home because some w*nkers avoid paying their taxes.’
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Post by Stranded Hatter on Jul 18, 2020 18:04:13 GMT
I’m obviously missing something. I agree that some people in Britain don’t have great lives, and that those people are more likely to be poor / not white. However, I’m not seeing the leap to ‘therefore it’s quite understandable / acceptable for a girl to spend her teenage years torturing Yazidis 3000 miles away from home because some w*nkers avoid paying their taxes.’ I didn’t think anyone said it was understandable or acceptable. Just that she was a child who was groomed into that way of life. She should still face consequences for those actions, even with the acknowledgment of her being a brainwashed child. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2020 18:15:15 GMT
Groomed, OK, maybe you, sueduhead, nik, the rest are groomed. You don't see you're being played.
Nik calls me a fool, OK, maybe, I know my enemy.
Nik, if you're not the snivelling coward, like suedehead that your posts show, please answer this one question.
Would any terrorist respect your opinions and support and hug you, or would you be killed like any other kaffir, if the opportunity arose?
You won't answer, but hey, it's OK because in another age, you'd be a fifth colonist.
Happy to discuss further
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Post by edinburghhatter on Jul 18, 2020 18:42:03 GMT
Not possible! We live in a post-colonial era!😁
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Post by HTC on Jul 18, 2020 18:42:57 GMT
I’m obviously missing something. I agree that some people in Britain don’t have great lives, and that those people are more likely to be poor / not white. However, I’m not seeing the leap to ‘therefore it’s quite understandable / acceptable for a girl to spend her teenage years torturing Yazidis 3000 miles away from home because some w*nkers avoid paying their taxes.’ I didn’t think anyone said it was understandable or acceptable. Just that she was a child who was groomed into that way of life. She should still face consequences for those actions, even with the acknowledgment of her being a brainwashed child. Harold / Slide’s posts last night read pretty close to ‘she’s just an innocent child, therefore should be treated as if she were a small child conscripted by the Khmer Rouge’ to my eyes. I’m in complete agreement with those who say she’s British, and should be charged / tried etc should she ever return here. I’m just saying she’s more akin to Shipman / Sutcliffe than Thomson / Venables, and should be tried accordingly. |
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Post by Stranded Hatter on Jul 18, 2020 18:56:08 GMT
I didn’t think anyone said it was understandable or acceptable. Just that she was a child who was groomed into that way of life. She should still face consequences for those actions, even with the acknowledgment of her being a brainwashed child. Harold / Slide’s posts last night read pretty close to ‘she’s just an innocent child, therefore should be treated as if she were a small child conscripted by the Khmer Rouge’ to my eyes. I’m in complete agreement with those who say she’s British, and should be charged / tried etc should she ever return here. I’m just saying she’s more akin to Shipman / Sutcliffe than Thomson / Venables, and should be tried accordingly. I put her more in the Thomson/Venables category personally. Sure she was 15 when she left but how many years of brainwashing had she undergone before then? I didn’t get the same from slide’s post personally, but I can see how that’s open to interpretation. I think recognising that she was a brainwashed child is not the same as saying her behaviour was acceptable or understandable; nor do I personally think that makes her an “innocent”. I personally think this entire thing is deeply nuanced, and I’m glad I won’t be in charge of prosecuting when she’s back in this country. It’s going to take a lot of work to deprogram the mess that’s been made of her mind and it may not be possible (in which case she should spend the rest of her life locked up away from the rest of society). |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2020 19:06:06 GMT
Sit down in front of an abused child and tell them how you’re not sympathetic because they came from a first world country.
Children the world over are groomed.
It’s us adults who’ve f*cked up. Not wanting to admit how much we’ve f*cked up, we prefer to blame children.
Punishment for what they’ve done? You have no idea.
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Post by bigmartin on Jul 18, 2020 19:09:20 GMT
Groomed, OK, maybe you, sueduhead, nik, the rest are groomed. You don't see you're being played. Nik calls me a fool, OK, maybe, I know my enemy. Nik, if you're not the snivelling coward, like suedehead that your posts show, please answer this one question. Would any terrorist respect your opinions and support and hug you, or would you be killed like any other kaffir, if the opportunity arose? You won't answer, but hey, it's OK because in another age, you'd be a fifth colonist. Happy to discuss further Whilst it would be cool to have a fifth colon, the words your looking for are Fifth Columnist. By the way. You're the coward. Taking the easy route is usually the sign of cowardice at worst. Laziness at best. The brave thing to do, in the face of spineless cowards like you and your ilk, who talk the talk but rarely walk it, is to do the correct thing. Bear in mind that the ISIS guys who murder people have essentially the same mindset as you. I wouldn't expect your intelligence to join those dots though. And as opposed to producing random, untested, unproven and usually quite absurd, comparisons and situations to try to prove the point you should actually take a look at how the Kurds treat their ISIS prisoners. They don't routinely put them to death. And they, more than any other country on the planet would be forgiven for doing so. Why? Because they have morals, see a bigger picture and, fundamentally are not cowardly. |
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Post by HTC on Jul 18, 2020 19:09:36 GMT
Another difficulty with the prosecution is that a lot of the evidence is likely to be inadmissible, either because it has been collected illegitimately, or due to reasons of national security.
Personally, I’ll be quite surprised if she ever makes it back to the country ‘officially’ - the current situation where she’s entitled to return, but not physically able to do so probably suits both her and the government pretty well.
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