|
Post by gibbo on Aug 29, 2023 11:52:36 GMT
I think the positive spin on it is that there's also an 'in between' option.
Stott can reduce the spending to the sort of level that enables the club to wash its face, and accepts us being a club that bounces between the 3rd/4th tier with a loyal base of legacy fans, rather than going all out for the Reading (northwest version) club he seemed to be aiming for initially.
Good post HTC, and I think the majority would also be happy with that. The person that probably doesn't want that though is Stott, and he's the man that's currently willing to lose all this money helping us get to that aim of the Championship. In that respect, I'm not really concerned about the financial losses as presumably Stott is happy to accept that's what is need to get us to the Championship (sooner rather than later).
|
|
|
Post by Stranded Hatter on Aug 29, 2023 11:56:28 GMT
I bet he will if we're not challenging for the title this season. And that's when we'll likely see the next set of significant changes coming - Challinor likely going and maybe even Wilson following. That's a bit different though than him deciding "I want out", which is some of the concern that seems to be about at the moment. He's surely sensible enough to know that it's not all going to be plain sailing when it comes to a Football Club? Wilson won’t be going anywhere. He is fundamentally part of the furniture at the club.
|
|
|
Post by gibbo on Aug 29, 2023 11:59:58 GMT
What people have very reasonably been worried about is the level of expenditure, the fact we were losing £93k a week 12 months ago and our total reliance on Stott. I'm sure some will come back with 'we're not in debt, converting to equity' etc but that doesn't alter the fact he is bankrolling us. Without him, we are totally and utterly f*cked. That is inarguable. The figure seems a lot, but is it an unreasonable amount considering the Championship / 7 Years aim?? It's obviously a fair amount with a view to being sustainable, but maybe it's needed to get us to a place (Championship) where we can generate the kind of revenue to make us sustainable?
|
|
|
Post by gibbo on Aug 29, 2023 12:06:23 GMT
Wilson won’t be going anywhere. He is fundamentally part of the furniture at the club. We know he was fundamental to Stott buying the club, but do we know they're still as tight? (to the point where Stott would blindly ignore any failings of Wilson's?)
|
|
|
Post by suedehead on Aug 29, 2023 12:08:26 GMT
What people have very reasonably been worried about is the level of expenditure, the fact we were losing £93k a week 12 months ago and our total reliance on Stott. I'm sure some will come back with 'we're not in debt, converting to equity' etc but that doesn't alter the fact he is bankrolling us. Without him, we are totally and utterly f*cked. That is inarguable. The figure seems a lot, but is it an unreasonable amount considering the Championship / 7 Years aim?? It's obviously a fair amount with a view to being sustainable, but maybe it's needed to get us to a place (Championship) where we can generate the kind of revenue to make us sustainable? Championship, zero chance of sustainability. I doubt any of the current 24 are close to sustainable. Maybe one or two who are just happy to be there but I doubt any are beyond that. It’s not some land of riches. Premier League, for this club and assuming it doesn’t take 20 years of throwing money at it in the Championship, would be a different matter. Stott could put in £100m to get us there and still make a packet. Said it loads already but I still think that is our ultimate aim. Get us to the Premier League.
|
|
|
Post by David Schofield on Aug 29, 2023 12:15:26 GMT
What people have very reasonably been worried about is the level of expenditure, the fact we were losing £93k a week 12 months ago and our total reliance on Stott. I'm sure some will come back with 'we're not in debt, converting to equity' etc but that doesn't alter the fact he is bankrolling us. Without him, we are totally and utterly f*cked. That is inarguable. The figure seems a lot, but is it an unreasonable amount considering the Championship / 7 Years aim?? It's obviously a fair amount with a view to being sustainable, but maybe it's needed to get us to a place (Championship) where we can generate the kind of revenue to make us sustainable? The latest average loss filed at Companies House for Championship Clubs is £476,000.00 a week (£24M+), that’s every Club, every week. Players’ wages currently account for 125% of turnover across the whole of The Championship The Championship is the very last place to find sustainability
|
|
|
Post by David Schofield on Aug 29, 2023 12:16:45 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Stranded Hatter on Aug 29, 2023 12:17:09 GMT
The figure seems a lot, but is it an unreasonable amount considering the Championship / 7 Years aim?? It's obviously a fair amount with a view to being sustainable, but maybe it's needed to get us to a place (Championship) where we can generate the kind of revenue to make us sustainable? Championship, zero chance of sustainability. I doubt any of the current 24 are close to sustainable. Maybe one or two who are just happy to be there but I doubt any are beyond that. It’s not some land of riches. Premier League, for this club and assuming it doesn’t take 20 years of throwing money at it in the Championship, would be a different matter. Stott could put in £100m to get us there and still make a packet. Said it loads already but I still think that is our ultimate aim. Get us to the Premier League. One season in the Premier League could set a club up for years. Bottom of that division get more in TV revenue than winners of some european top flights. Not that I'd want us to get dicked each week if we did get there, but it wouldn't be the end of the world financially. There's even an argument to be made that a club getting to that level for the first time would be better off having a go with their squad that got them up, rather than spending big on trying to put together a squad that might survive but still might not, and if they went down straight away just banking the money for a better tilt at it later. Particularly with parachute payments.
|
|
|
Post by Stranded Hatter on Aug 29, 2023 12:20:27 GMT
Championship, zero chance of sustainability. I doubt any of the current 24 are close to sustainable. Maybe one or two who are just happy to be there but I doubt any are beyond that. It’s not some land of riches. Premier League, for this club and assuming it doesn’t take 20 years of throwing money at it in the Championship, would be a different matter. Stott could put in £100m to get us there and still make a packet. Said it loads already but I still think that is our ultimate aim. Get us to the Premier League. One season in the Premier League could set a club up for years. Bottom of that division get more in TV revenue than winners of some european top flights. Not that I'd want us to get dicked each week if we did get there, but it wouldn't be the end of the world financially. There's even an argument to be made that a club getting to that level for the first time would be better off having a go with their squad that got them up, rather than spending big on trying to put together a squad that might survive but still might not, and if they went down straight away just banking the money for a better tilt at it later. Particularly with parachute payments. I also think that if we ever did get there it would be a far bigger story than Luton. We've got the non league thing but having fallen further, and have never been a top flight club. The only difference is Edgeley Park doesn't have the same meme potential as Kenilworth Road.
|
|
|
Post by Stranded Hatter on Aug 29, 2023 12:37:19 GMT
For those without an athletic subscription this video covers a lot of just why and how the Championship is broken
|
|
|
Post by vicar on Aug 29, 2023 12:48:35 GMT
I think the positive spin on it is that there's also an 'in between' option.
Stott can reduce the spending to the sort of level that enables the club to wash its face, and accepts us being a club that bounces between the 3rd/4th tier with a loyal base of legacy fans, rather than going all out for the Reading (northwest version) club he seemed to be aiming for initially.
Good post HTC, and I think the majority would also be happy with that. The person that probably doesn't want that though is Stott, and he's the man that's currently willing to lose all this money helping us get to that aim of the Championship. In that respect, I'm not really concerned about the financial losses as presumably Stott is happy to accept that's what is need to get us to the Championship (sooner rather than later). The few thousand extra fans and potential fans don't want that either, I don't think they expect the premiership but bouncing between 3 and 4 doesn't set the pulse racing.
|
|
|
Post by 57hattersyears on Aug 29, 2023 14:49:09 GMT
The figure seems a lot, but is it an unreasonable amount considering the Championship / 7 Years aim?? It's obviously a fair amount with a view to being sustainable, but maybe it's needed to get us to a place (Championship) where we can generate the kind of revenue to make us sustainable? The latest average loss filed at Companies House for Championship Clubs is £476,000.00 a week (£24M+), that’s every Club, every week. Players’ wages currently account for 125% of turnover across the whole of The Championship The Championship is the very last place to find sustainability Last I saw was it was costing Steve Gibson at Middlesborough well north if £20m a year personally just to keep them in the Championship
|
|
|
Post by 57hattersyears on Aug 29, 2023 14:54:01 GMT
Championship, zero chance of sustainability. I doubt any of the current 24 are close to sustainable. Maybe one or two who are just happy to be there but I doubt any are beyond that. It’s not some land of riches. Premier League, for this club and assuming it doesn’t take 20 years of throwing money at it in the Championship, would be a different matter. Stott could put in £100m to get us there and still make a packet. Said it loads already but I still think that is our ultimate aim. Get us to the Premier League. One season in the Premier League could set a club up for years. Bottom of that division get more in TV revenue than winners of some european top flights. Not that I'd want us to get dicked each week if we did get there, but it wouldn't be the end of the world financially. There's even an argument to be made that a club getting to that level for the first time would be better off having a go with their squad that got them up, rather than spending big on trying to put together a squad that might survive but still might not, and if they went down straight away just banking the money for a better tilt at it later. Particularly with parachute payments. Which is exactly what Curbishley did the first time Charlton reached the PL. Told the Board to expect an immediate relegation but to use the cash from the PL to get back and he'd keep them there. Which he did for 6 or 7 seasons.
|
|
|
Post by m14hatter on Aug 29, 2023 15:08:29 GMT
One season in the Premier League could set a club up for years. Bottom of that division get more in TV revenue than winners of some european top flights. Not that I'd want us to get dicked each week if we did get there, but it wouldn't be the end of the world financially. There's even an argument to be made that a club getting to that level for the first time would be better off having a go with their squad that got them up, rather than spending big on trying to put together a squad that might survive but still might not, and if they went down straight away just banking the money for a better tilt at it later. Particularly with parachute payments. Which is exactly what Curbishley did the first time Charlton reached the PL. Told the Board to expect an immediate relegation but to use the cash from the PL to get back and he'd keep them there. Which he did for 6 or 7 seasons. Always baffled me that after his spell at West Ham he never got another gig. He’d done such a good job with Charlton.
|
|
|
Post by 57hattersyears on Aug 29, 2023 16:12:45 GMT
I'm sure some will come back with 'we're not in debt, converting to equity' etc but that doesn't alter the fact he is bankrolling us. Without him, we are totally and utterly f*cked. That is inarguable. With regard to the conversion of 'debt to equity' the last time this happened was on 22nd June 2022, just in time for it to reflect in the accounts for 2021/22. With losses at £93k a week in that year it is not beyond the realms of possibility that the losses in 2022/23 might be of the order of £6m plus. That will show as debt on the accounts as there has been no conversion to date. This probably will happen in due course, and might show as a 'Post Balance Sheet Event'. If not, and I'm no expert on EFL regulations, then I imagine that the EFL will be rolling their eyes at a thumping great loss being reflected as debt.
|
|