|
|
Post by canterbury on May 23, 2020 21:31:41 GMT
Why would they be higher than last time?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 23, 2020 21:35:51 GMT
If we can get over 6,000 fans for a game against Curzon Ashton in the National League North then we could easily look at 15,000 for big Championship ties. Stop being so negative, if we think small then we won't ever make it back to that level. Didn't anyone ever tell you we're MASSIVE 🙄😂 I’ll assume from your username you weren’t around when we got 8,000 in the Championship but having now read the other comments on this thread I agree a 15,000 capacity would be tidy. Part of the surge in crowds recently has been a reaction to finally getting out of the sixth tier in my opinion. People are starved of success. The numbers wouldn’t just keep climbing up with every promotion. It would be pretty steady and tail off. In my humble opinion. |
|
|
|
Post by County1999 on May 23, 2020 22:10:45 GMT
If we can get over 6,000 fans for a game against Curzon Ashton in the National League North then we could easily look at 15,000 for big Championship ties. Stop being so negative, if we think small then we won't ever make it back to that level. Didn't anyone ever tell you we're MASSIVE 🙄😂 I’ll assume from your username you weren’t around when we got 8,000 in the Championship but having now read the other comments on this thread I agree a 15,000 capacity would be tidy. Part of the surge in crowds recently has been a reaction to finally getting out of the sixth tier in my opinion. People are starved of success. The numbers wouldn’t just keep climbing up with every promotion. It would be pretty steady and tail off. In my humble opinion. I was around, my first game was in '99. I'm quite a bit older than that 😂 I remember the Championship fondly. The fact of attendances and fickle football fans means success will drag in fans. New and old. For instance, in 1987/88 we averaged 2,272. 10 years later in the Championship we averaged 8,332. Can't exactly say by 1998 we were starved of success. Attendances were at around 367% of the 1988 figures. If you applied that to the current 2019/20 average we would be at 15,924, with an extra promotion. Adding in an increase in attendances at all levels since 1998, 20,000 really doesn't seem a silly figure 😁 |
|
|
|
Post by BWScarf on May 23, 2020 22:50:34 GMT
The Main Stand will almost certainly stay as it is. That's fine it's the old skool stand and gives us character. Be nice to get rid of the asbestos roof and we've got people in charge who know what they're doing but I doubt that will happen soon. The Cheadle End refurb is all about the underneath - redeveloping the corporate which was tatty and very dated as you'd expect. What they said would happen in time is a full new redeveloped Pop Side and RE which we've needed for a while. A few have said it's nerdy but I would've thought everyone gets excited with this sort of stuff. I remember when this happened it was very exciting. Especially as the CE was tiny.  That was over 25 years ago. We've been crying out for some proper redevelopment of the ground. A decent 5,000 seats in the pop side with all the corporate boxes/extras, food and drink and new changing rooms underneath etc would be great. 3,000 at the RE with decent facilities you'd expect and make it the away end. Be more than enough even for the biggest games. That would be nice wouldn't it.  Agreed. We could do with new seats in the lower tier of the CE too. They’ve faded and it reminds me of the Stadium of Light. |
|
|
|
Post by Imposter on May 24, 2020 0:18:04 GMT
Why would they be higher than last time? I'd suggest two things. 1) Away followings are slightly largely. Last time we were there they were slightly under 1k on average. Average now is about 1.5k. And we'd likely get more due to being an ace away day with our transport links and close amenities. 2) We're starting from lower down with a bigger initial base than when we last climbed the leagues. Last time we were in the fourth tier and started with 1800-2000 home fans and hit around 6000-6,500 at our peak. This time our lowest ebb was 6th tier where the lowest I think we averaged was about 2,700-2,800. So if we follow a similar pattern then that 2,700-2,800 should increase by at least 3, 3.5 fold. So becoming 9.5k, but probably more like 10-10.5k when you throw in that we're starting two divisions lower. We're already seeing a growing fan base as people who only came in free tickets are now bringing their children and encouraging them as County fans. If we did hit 10-10.5k home fans then with away fans that becomes 11.5-12.5 crowds on average. With that 15k looks about right but a bit bigger doesn't look that massive. Worth pointing out for all the comparisons with Vale that Millwall and Preston both play in stadiums with capacity around the 20-22k mark with crowds around the 9-12k mark, and no one ever talks of them lacking for atmosphere. |
|
Roman
Frequenter
Posts: 184 
|
Post by Roman on May 24, 2020 0:28:52 GMT
Add in the fact that a lot of supporters like a side on view and both the Main Stand and Pop are poor views in both obstruction, angle and height. So an improved view plus newer facilities will encourage extra spectators. The last time we were in the Championship the facilities weren’t up to scratch. Create something special facility wise will encourage people to have a nosey. County fans, potential County fans who currently support a big club that can’t afford to go. Absolutely no reason why we can’t comfortably attract 10-12K regularly. The refurb is key to this because Edgeley Park isn’t great for facilities or view. The Railway End is also an embarrassment and makes us look tinpot. Something decent will make it look and feel so much better. Anyway I’m waffling now and it’s late!
|
|
|
|
Post by Imposter on May 24, 2020 0:41:09 GMT
Add in the fact that a lot of supporters like a side on view and both the Main Stand and Pop are poor views in both obstruction, angle and height. So an improved view plus newer facilities will encourage extra spectators. The last time we were in the Championship the facilities weren’t up to scratch. Create something special facility wise will encourage people to have a nosey. County fans, potential County fans who currently support a big club that can’t afford to go. Absolutely no reason why we can’t comfortably attract 10-12K regularly. The refurb is key to this because Edgeley Park isn’t great for facilities or view. The Railway End is also an embarrassment and makes us look tinpot. Something decent will make it look and feel so much better. Anyway I’m waffling now and it’s late! Popside I would agree with, the rake is all wrong. But I've actually found Main Stand a pretty decent view, in terms of rake/angle. Not withstanding both suffer from pillars in the way. But yeah, I've always thought Main Stand best view in the house. I do agree though there's no reason why we couldn't attract at the lower end of 5 figures 10-13k, if we were up Championship/top high end of League 1. 🙂 |
|
|
|
Post by timberwolf on May 24, 2020 7:41:45 GMT
when they do develop the ground i hope the developers realize that there is a good chance of rain at EP. due to the design the first 6 or so rows of the CE are unusable unless sitting in the rain is your thing. keepmoat stadium is exactly the same where basically the whole ground has fans missing from the first few rows on rainy days. a much lower roof is required for me.
|
|
|
|
Post by canterbury on May 24, 2020 12:29:21 GMT
Why would they be higher than last time? I'd suggest two things. 1) Away followings are slightly largely. Last time we were there they were slightly under 1k on average. Average now is about 1.5k. And we'd likely get more due to being an ace away day with our transport links and close amenities. 2) We're starting from lower down with a bigger initial base than when we last climbed the leagues. Last time we were in the fourth tier and started with 1800-2000 home fans and hit around 6000-6,500 at our peak. This time our lowest ebb was 6th tier where the lowest I think we averaged was about 2,700-2,800. So if we follow a similar pattern then that 2,700-2,800 should increase by at least 3, 3.5 fold. So becoming 9.5k, but probably more like 10-10.5k when you throw in that we're starting two divisions lower. We're already seeing a growing fan base as people who only came in free tickets are now bringing their children and encouraging them as County fans. If we did hit 10-10.5k home fans then with away fans that becomes 11.5-12.5 crowds on average. With that 15k looks about right but a bit bigger doesn't look that massive. Worth pointing out for all the comparisons with Vale that Millwall and Preston both play in stadiums with capacity around the 20-22k mark with crowds around the 9-12k mark, and no one ever talks of them lacking for atmosphere. Accept both (1) and (2), although I think City being such a trophy winning machine is a factor in the other column to offset it a little. Still, we're talking about the upper limits of our potential on a thread about what ground improvements to do here and now when we're 40% full on average. I'm a fan of Jim but even one promotion is going to be hard enough never mind three! If/when all the conditions that justify building a 20,000 seater are satisfied, we'd then need to ponder how long we'd need it for. Same as in the late 90s, we'd be accepting that we'll come back down sooner or later. As someone's sig on the old place said, sport is cyclical. When that boom turns to bust, would all those seats we won't need any more in the lower divisions/conference have been worth building? Someone mentioned Bournemouth over the page, I expect they'll be a lower division club again one day, and if they are, will they regret they didn't build a stadium fit for a division they were never going to stay in? |
|
|
|
Post by Imposter on May 24, 2020 13:12:30 GMT
I'd suggest two things. 1) Away followings are slightly largely. Last time we were there they were slightly under 1k on average. Average now is about 1.5k. And we'd likely get more due to being an ace away day with our transport links and close amenities. 2) We're starting from lower down with a bigger initial base than when we last climbed the leagues. Last time we were in the fourth tier and started with 1800-2000 home fans and hit around 6000-6,500 at our peak. This time our lowest ebb was 6th tier where the lowest I think we averaged was about 2,700-2,800. So if we follow a similar pattern then that 2,700-2,800 should increase by at least 3, 3.5 fold. So becoming 9.5k, but probably more like 10-10.5k when you throw in that we're starting two divisions lower. We're already seeing a growing fan base as people who only came in free tickets are now bringing their children and encouraging them as County fans. If we did hit 10-10.5k home fans then with away fans that becomes 11.5-12.5 crowds on average. With that 15k looks about right but a bit bigger doesn't look that massive. Worth pointing out for all the comparisons with Vale that Millwall and Preston both play in stadiums with capacity around the 20-22k mark with crowds around the 9-12k mark, and no one ever talks of them lacking for atmosphere. Accept both (1) and (2), although I think City being such a trophy winning machine is a factor in the other column to offset it a little. Still, we're talking about the upper limits of our potential on a thread about what ground improvements to do here and now when we're 40% full on average. I'm a fan of Jim but even one promotion is going to be hard enough never mind three! If/when all the conditions that justify building a 20,000 seater are satisfied, we'd then need to ponder how long we'd need it for. Same as in the late 90s, we'd be accepting that we'll come back down sooner or later. As someone's sig on the old place said, sport is cyclical. When that boom turns to bust, would all those seats we won't need any more in the lower divisions/conference have been worth building? Someone mentioned Bournemouth over the page, I expect they'll be a lower division club again one day, and if they are, will they regret they didn't build a stadium fit for a division they were never going to stay in? If we go up to the League we'll get up to League 1 - that's pretty much inevitable. As for getting to the Championship, the amount of money they seem prepared to spend and the effort they want to put in, I think it's likely we'll get there. And football being cyclical - does it have to be? Prior to Elton John and Graham Taylor, Watford were an archetypal 3rd/4th tier team. Since they left the 3rd tier in the late 1970's they've only spent 2 seasons outside the top 2 divisions. Similarly Coventry, prior to hitting the top Flight had spent a grand total of about 5 seasons above the 3rd tier - they left the third tier and didn't go back for about 40 years. Or in reverse Bury- barely out of the top 2 divisions until the late 60's, have since spent about 2 seasons up there since. Or Oldham, 21 years in the top 2 divisions until 1997, it's now been 23 years since they were last in the top 2 divisions. There's no reason why we couldn't establish ourselves as a top end League 1/Championship club. Look also at what happen at the likes of Reading and Hull, we all remember the 6 or 7 thousand at Elm Park or the 3 or 4 thousand at Boothferry Park. Now look at them. |
|
Roman
Frequenter
Posts: 184
|
Post by Roman on May 24, 2020 13:16:21 GMT
It’s not necessarily adding more seats but improving the facilities and opportunities for corporate/sponsorship. It’ll also be good to not have to move season ticket holders if someone with a big support comes to town.
It’s as much putting offices, bigger modern changing rooms, press area, players lounges, banqueting suits, corporate facilities. Also improving and maximising the food/beer sales which are poor to non existent in the other stands. Improving the view by changing the rake (as some one mentioned), getting rid of posts, better roofing/lighting. Improving the facilities for filming etc. It’s far more than just more seats.
|
|
|
|
Post by vicar on May 24, 2020 13:29:39 GMT
When Brendan Ellwood came in we started with crowds of around 1800, we're now starting from a much better position, County always suffered in the past through people wanting to dissociate with Stockport as a whole or even as a hole but that attitude's totally changed, I think in the Championship now we'd attract 5 figure crowds.
|
|
|
|
Post by canterbury on May 24, 2020 15:33:18 GMT
If we go up to the League we'll get up to League 1 - that's pretty much inevitable. As for getting to the Championship, the amount of money they seem prepared to spend and the effort they want to put in, I think it's likely we'll get there. And football being cyclical - does it have to be? Prior to Elton John and Graham Taylor, Watford were an archetypal 3rd/4th tier team. Since they left the 3rd tier in the late 1970's they've only spent 2 seasons outside the top 2 divisions. Similarly Coventry, prior to hitting the top Flight had spent a grand total of about 5 seasons above the 3rd tier - they left the third tier and didn't go back for about 40 years. Or in reverse Bury- barely out of the top 2 divisions until the late 60's, have since spent about 2 seasons up there since. Or Oldham, 21 years in the top 2 divisions until 1997, it's now been 23 years since they were last in the top 2 divisions. There's no reason why we couldn't establish ourselves as a top end League 1/Championship club. Look also at what happen at the likes of Reading and Hull, we all remember the 6 or 7 thousand at Elm Park or the 3 or 4 thousand at Boothferry Park. Now look at them.
How much money are they spending? Have they said or are we just assuming it's high because Stott is loaded? And is it being gifted by him or just loaned? I'm leaning towards not getting there, but only slightly, 60-40 say. We seem to be only considering best case scenario in the last couple of pages. There's another scenario where we don't get out of non-league. As long as we're keeping our minds open to that and every possibility in between. Owners who set lofty ambitions for their club and fail is a longer list.
Watford - A great example of punching above your weight for so long you end up moving up a weight category. The size of ground they can fill now, perhaps they've cracked it. Would be a good model. Not sure doing their ground up came before establishing themselves though?
Coventry - I think their example backs my points up. Capacity planned when considering themselves a Prem club forever more, it's never hosted games at that level and has generally been 60-70% empty.
Bury & Oldham - both wise not to build big capacities during long stints in the upper divisions.
Hull & Reading - both cases fascinate me really. The latter just seems like an affluent town that waited 100 years for the gentrification of football stadiums them suddenly all these new fans were just there. Brighton are perhaps similar but maybe the underlying demand was always there and they couldn't all fit in the Withdean. I don't get how Hull City quadrupled their crowds on Day One of the new stadium and have kept them ever since. Seems unlikely a couple of new stands at EP would do the same.
|
|
|
|
Post by HTC on May 24, 2020 16:37:03 GMT
Reading / Brighton are classic examples of demographics at work.
When the FL expanded in the early 20th century, it was a working class sport largely played in working class northern towns, hence Huddersfield / Preston etc being big clubs in the early days.
Population and wealth has steadily moved south in the last 100 years, meaning what were small market towns in 1920 are now big, wealthy towns with large catchment areas / commuters heading to London.
This means you’ve lost traditional clubs from declining northern towns like Halifax, and gained clubs from commuter towns like Crawley / Stevenage.
Brighton / Reading are big enough / wealthy enough / far enough from London to take advantage of these newly developed catchment areas, in turn replacing clubs from places like Coventry / Blackpool where those areas have moved in the opposite direction.
|
|
|
|
Post by Durango95 on May 24, 2020 17:44:22 GMT
Not sure if true, but heard today the owners have visited and want to recreate similar to Groningens ground at the POP/RE. Car parking underneath the Pop side was mentioned. How, I'm not sure. As I'd imagine it'd be new changing rooms and everything else there. www.stadiumguide.com/euroborg/So i'm guessing similar to these two then? Interesting either way.  |
|
