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Post by edinburghhatter on Sept 21, 2020 18:53:06 GMT
Railway End seats are gone.  That's one mouldy block of terracing! Maybe the (??)2 block(s) to the right are being retained... I think they were replaced, or at least refurbished, only a year or so ago. |
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Post by desmond on Sept 21, 2020 18:57:19 GMT
Think there was always an embankment there and they have cleared all the vegetation?? This is a modern picture. The yellow bit is County land IIRC. The rest isn't. The club stated new bigger stands were happening, so we must be purchasing the old bungalow site for this to happen, clear activity going on there as you see on that pic. The green/vegetation up against the fence has been cleared. With that land we can build a stand similar size to the CE. Without it we've severely limited in doing much.  Someone posted the Booth St Stockport Homes plans a while back and its the red bit on here, originally it also contained the blue section and the plans showed there were to be several storey flats in the corner. That was then revised and amended and removed. Our owners are in this game, convinced the changes will be down to them and they'll have the Bungalow land sewn up, otherwise it wouldn't seem worth while. And there's loads of space to redevelop the Pop Side.  Wonder if clearing that vegetation might allow them to create a new/temporary exit from the RE ? |
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Post by Chaddz09 on Sept 21, 2020 19:24:20 GMT
Good point!
Forgive me as there are far too many pages to look back at now but has it been confirmed that MS had bought the land behind the Railway End?
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Post by darkhorse on Sept 21, 2020 19:26:27 GMT
Good point! Forgive me as there are far too many pages to look back at now but has it been confirmed that MS had bought the land behind the Railway End? No there is no confirmation of that. |
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Post by hedleyverity on Sept 21, 2020 19:36:36 GMT
There's also the matter of not owning EP
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Post by CB1883 on Sept 21, 2020 21:39:22 GMT
Looks like the old bowling green is now being used as a storage depot Yes... I seem to remember discovering that a small bit of land behind the bowling green pavilion was a builder's yard, or something similar. Maybe he's expanded onto where the actual green was? Hope it's not to be another stumbling-block...
I'm very encouraged by these pics, but I'll only really believe it's happening when the bowling green and the bungalow are finally cleared. There'd then be plenty space to start the build with an upper tier behind the current Railway end (thus avoiding reducing the current capacity while doing so)... which could then in due course be demolished and rebuilt a bit further away from the pitch... which could maybe also be shifted eastward a couple of yards to give a better view at both ends.
As for the Pop side, you could do something similar, in order to widen the pitch slightly and improve the views. And with a second tier built above and behind the present one, the footprint (including the present concourse) is surely large enough for a decent-capacity stand.
It'd require an organised sequence of manoeuvres, but all very do-able. County are getting one shot at all this, and I hope they get it right. I think they will!  Are the containers/portakabins not likely to be storage and/or ‘facilities’ for the workers on site. Suspect they’ll be break areas etc |
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Post by edinburghhatter on Sept 21, 2020 21:56:02 GMT
There's also the matter of not owning EP Or is there? At the moment the asset (EP) ostensibly belongs to the Council, and produces a modest yearly rental income. County are currently putting in a lot of cash for maintenance and enhancement of the asset. Building new stands clearly raises its value, but for whom? I can't see Mark Stott simply, in effect, giving money away like that. Either he buys/has bought EP and the other relevant bits of land or there is some sort of partnership deal, with the Council involved (in the future, at any rate) as a relatively minor stakeholder, but still a crucial one... Shared ownership, even more than municipal ownership perhaps, may be the best way of securing the future of EP and the club.
PS: the pic which shows the containers on the old bowling green is indeed relatively recent, but may no longer be completely up to date. What would be very useful, since things seem to be happening, would be to get a similar view of that whole area now.
Does anyone have access to a drone?! |
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Post by darkhorse on Sept 21, 2020 22:56:31 GMT
Yes... I seem to remember discovering that a small bit of land behind the bowling green pavilion was a builder's yard, or something similar. Maybe he's expanded onto where the actual green was? Hope it's not to be another stumbling-block...
I'm very encouraged by these pics, but I'll only really believe it's happening when the bowling green and the bungalow are finally cleared. There'd then be plenty space to start the build with an upper tier behind the current Railway end (thus avoiding reducing the current capacity while doing so)... which could then in due course be demolished and rebuilt a bit further away from the pitch... which could maybe also be shifted eastward a couple of yards to give a better view at both ends.
As for the Pop side, you could do something similar, in order to widen the pitch slightly and improve the views. And with a second tier built above and behind the present one, the footprint (including the present concourse) is surely large enough for a decent-capacity stand.
It'd require an organised sequence of manoeuvres, but all very do-able. County are getting one shot at all this, and I hope they get it right. I think they will! Are the containers/portakabins not likely to be storage and/or ‘facilities’ for the workers on site. Suspect they’ll be break areas etc You'll have to take my word for it but I'm pretty certain they aren't, it's on a different property in any case. Probably a good thing it's just a lockup yard currently as it means it's not obviously about to be developed by someone else but could be cleared in no time and started on if the land was bought. |
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Post by stevie57 on Sept 22, 2020 5:51:46 GMT
There's also the matter of not Or is there? At the moment the asset (EP) ostensibly belongs to the Council, and produces a modest yearly rental income. County are currently putting in a lot of cash for maintenance and enhancement of the asset. Building new stands clearly raises its value, but for whom? I can't see Mark Stott simply, in effect, giving money away like that. Either he buys/has bought EP and the other relevant bits of land or there is some sort of partnership deal, with the Council involved (in the future, at any rate) as a relatively minor stakeholder, but still a crucial one... Shared ownership, even more than municipal ownership perhaps, may be the best way of securing the future of EP and the club.
PS: the pic which shows the containers on the old bowling green is indeed relatively recent, but may no longer be completely up to date. What would be very useful, since things seem to be happening, would be to get a similar view of that whole area now.
Does anyone have access to a drone?! Following on from the points you outlined. The status, ownership and financial arrangements relating to EP raise some interesting questions, some of which have already been aired. Firstly, the vital (at the time) acquisition of EP from Cheshire Sports by the Council was a great move by them in two respects: financially, and in helping to support the club with everything that entails. Pre-Stott, it was virtually the only option to secure the club’s future. However, the Council’s £2,000,000 purchase in 2015 was clearly from their point of view, a commercial deal from which they expected an economic return. The money would have been taken on what is a very, very small loan by the Council at next to no interest; all Councils do this - to put it in context, Luton Borough Council (much smaller than Stockport) last week took out a £60,000,000 loan for Luton Airport. Is County’s rent the £80,000 pa it was previously before the Council’s purchase of EP, or do we not know? If it is, I think that’s a 4% pa return for the Council on a loan they took out at a negligible interest rate ie it is a very profitable income for the Council and a drain on the club. Surely the buying back of EP is something the club would wish to do, but do we know the Council’s attitude to this proposal? As has already been mentioned, is the club making substantial improvements to a property that is in effect tied into a landlord/tenant relationship? Everything we have seen from Mark Stott and everyone involved with him has been astute, highly professional and purposeful. As shown in this thread, there is lots going on and perhaps we are only seeing the visible bits; there must have been talks with the landlord before all the work we can see going on currently around EP. Is the relationship still exactly as it was when agreed in 2015? Regarding shared ownership with the Council, my instinct would be to be wary; I’m sure if done right there may be some benefits (?), but it can lead to problems as the Council’s priorities might not always coincide with those of the club (the most spectacular example of this has been the endless wrangling in Milan about the San Siro between Inter and AC, and the city authorities). The Council’s intervention in 2015 was critical at the time; things have moved on, are those arrangements still fit for purpose? My instinct says not, but I’m no great expert on all this. By the way: I was walking down Oxford Road in Manchester a few days ago; spotted the VITA name on the huge development on Circle Square (the old BBC site); very impressive. Apologies if I’ve repeated anything covered previously. |
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Post by stewhatter on Sept 22, 2020 6:19:01 GMT
From what I’ve seen the boundary of the housing site is right next to the bungalow.
I would guess that some of the bowling green will be gone at the boundary of the end of the bungalow meaning we / VITA/ MS have negotiated a bit more area behind the RE. In cahoots with the council
I don’t think there will be any new access for the RE and there is just cosmetic improvements this season.
It looks as if there is room for a new stand or a roof over the RE but prob not anything major capacity wise.
The Pop side is better for potential increase but it looks like that will not be major as the space isn’t that great behind the current boundary- not easy construction wise. They would have fairly major works as soon as you get into the Pop side the land falls away down a slope.
The inside of the CE has been completely ripped out and refurbed though (in the exec lounges).
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Post by Nik on Sept 22, 2020 6:25:19 GMT
From what I’ve seen the boundary of the housing site is right next to the bungalow. I would guess that some of the bowling green will be gone at the boundary of the end of the bungalow meaning we / VITA/ MS have negotiated a bit more area behind the RE. In cahoots with the council I don’t think there will be any new access for the RE and there is just cosmetic improvements this season. It looks as if there is room for a new stand or a roof over the RE but prob not anything major capacity wise. The Pop side is better for potential increase but it looks like that will not be major as the space isn’t that great behind the current boundary- not easy construction wise. They would have fairly major works as soon as you get into the Pop side the land falls away down a slope. The inside of the CE has been completely ripped out and refurbed though (in the exec lounges). I'm not sure a roof is likely on the Railway with the stand remaining the same size, given the size of the new scoreboard and the lack of room to move it to somewhere else in the ground. |
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Post by stewhatter on Sept 22, 2020 6:26:18 GMT
I would guess we are looking long term to get to 15k with an extra 1000-1500 on the RE and 2500 on the Pop side. We are just under 11 at the mo. My be completely wrong and at the mo we are just trying to get 2700 in!
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Post by timberwolf on Sept 22, 2020 9:26:20 GMT
I would guess we are looking long term to get to 15k with an extra 1000-1500 on the RE and 2500 on the Pop side. We are just under 11 at the mo. thats about the number i would go for plus still having the council owning EP. mark stott may be around for the long haul but will eventually leave like all owners. much happier with the ground divorced from the club if we ever ended up with a rogue owner in the future. |
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Post by edinburghhatter on Sept 22, 2020 9:29:31 GMT
From what I’ve seen the boundary of the housing site is right next to the bungalow. I would guess that some of the bowling green will be gone at the boundary of the end of the bungalow meaning we / VITA/ MS have negotiated a bit more area behind the RE. In cahoots with the council I don’t think there will be any new access for the RE and there is just cosmetic improvements this season. It looks as if there is room for a new stand or a roof over the RE but prob not anything major capacity wise. The Pop side is better for potential increase but it looks like that will not be major as the space isn’t that great behind the current boundary- not easy construction wise. They would have fairly major works as soon as you get into the Pop side the land falls away down a slope. The inside of the CE has been completely ripped out and refurbed though (in the exec lounges). I'm not sure a roof is likely on the Railway with the stand remaining the same size, given the size of the new scoreboard and the lack of room to move it to somewhere else in the ground. Don't think even a temporary roof on the Railway end is a realistic option. It would be a complete waste of money. IMHO, nothing at all will be left of the original Railway end when it's redeveloped (although we might recycle a few seats?) What will be built is a proper stand, at least twice as big as the present one, and not some half-assed adaptation of a standing terrace which has its origins about 120 years ago. For the moment, tarting it up and making the seats fit for use (even if fans prefer to stand!) is probably all we can hope for. |
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Post by Henry Pratt on Sept 22, 2020 11:25:35 GMT
I would guess we are looking long term to get to 15k with an extra 1000-1500 on the RE and 2500 on the Pop side. We are just under 11 at the mo. thats about the number i would go for plus still having the council owning EP. mark stott may be around for the long haul but will eventually leave like all owners. much happier with the ground divorced from the club if we ever ended up with a rogue owner in the future. No one's going to pay serious money - millions if we're talking new stands - to refurbish a ground they don't own. |
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