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Post by Stranded Hatter on May 20, 2024 20:18:55 GMT
We don’t own it, but we as good as do and we get every penny of generated revenue from it. If anything it’s in safer hands. Today’s season ticket sales tell you all we need to know. We’ve sold out of season tickets in a day. There’s going to be between 1-2 thousand people that wanted a season ticket but won’t be able to get one and nearly every game next season is going to be a sellout. Add a playoff push and it’s not far fetched to say we’d be talking 13,000 wanting a ticket. If we’re talking promotion push and championship matches who knows what numbers we’re talking. The numbers involved are scary but it’s the reality. We essentially have two options 1) Stagnate with a tired 10k seater ground and only 3 roofs. 2) Redevelop at a significant cost and capitalise on the investment. There’s only one option for me and that means putting trust in Stott and his team. Fortunately they have a rather good track record in this field. This where I'm at. We're at a point where if we don't expand EP now then we never will, and then we have hit our ceiling. Dave I do get where you're coming from. Some of the potential finances involved are eye watering, but if we don't do it now then it will never happen and I don't think you want us to be limited by our home. Aside from anything else it increases the danger of a more unscrupulous future owner deciding that we have to move to some flat pack on the edge of the borough because EP is too small and doesn't give us the extra revenue we need. The council owning the ground and leasing it to the club for exclusive use and control means that we are, if anything, safer than if the club owned it. It means that if the shit does hit the fan then any creditors cannot come for EP, it's the council's. For me this is the perfect time for it. Let's use the good will around the club and our success on the pitch to bring our home fully into the 21st century. Do it right and we'll have a football ground other clubs will be envious of for decades to come. It's also worth noting that these expansion plans aren't just about extra seats in the ground. It will expand our corporate offering, conference, banqueting and events facilities and help to turn Edgeley Park into a state of the art facility which can generate revenue all year round. All while retaining its character, charm, soul and location. Do it properly and we'll have the money making upsides of new builds coupled with the a traditional town centre football ground. It's win win.
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Post by desmond on May 20, 2024 21:12:18 GMT
Has a football stadium ever been built without the risks that concern you? I get where you’re coming from, but I’m not sure what the alternative is/what you want. Every other football club that has significantly invested in their stadium will have been through the same thing and the vast majority have made the numbers work. I don’t see why ours would be any more risky. Because we don’t own it Because we have no track record of anything like that level of attendance for 50 years and even in the Championship we lost fans with a levelling off and… We were already at point where we were spending £13.1M in the 4th division with this infrastructure, build that stadium and it’s £20M a year and we still don’t own it!!! Lose Stott and we lose his credit rating… 5.5% would be a(n incredibly) competitive rate… without him we would be likely paying twice that and the the next 14 years paying £25M a year to stand still… I am not saying I don’t want us to do it, I am just asking where the money is coming from and just what are we getting into..? I understand your concerns but I genuinely believe that our attendances in L1/Championship were actually held back by our limited capacity, the amount of all ticket games (which back then was more unusual than it is today) and the away allocations. I think many people assumed they wouldn’t be able to get in and so didn’t bother trying, a capacity with a greater degree of flexibility would likely have seen our average attendance a fair bit higher. I also remember when the CE construction was underway and we had many people saying we’d never fill it and it would be a white elephant, without it we’d have never built the crowds back to what they are today and we’d be no bigger than a club like Altrincham.
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Post by The Real Exile on May 20, 2024 21:17:46 GMT
Because we don’t own it Because we have no track record of anything like that level of attendance for 50 years and even in the Championship we lost fans with a levelling off and… We were already at point where we were spending £13.1M in the 4th division with this infrastructure, build that stadium and it’s £20M a year and we still don’t own it!!! Lose Stott and we lose his credit rating… 5.5% would be a(n incredibly) competitive rate… without him we would be likely paying twice that and the the next 14 years paying £25M a year to stand still… I am not saying I don’t want us to do it, I am just asking where the money is coming from and just what are we getting into..? I understand your concerns but I genuinely believe that our attendances in the then L1 were actually held back by our limited capacity, the amount of all ticket games (which back then was more unusual than it is today) and the away allocations. I think many people assumed they wouldn’t be able to get in and so didn’t bother trying, a capacity with a greater degree of flexibility would likely have seen our average attendance a fair bit higher. I also remember when the CE construction was underway and we had many people saying we’d never fill it and it would be a white elephant, without it we’d have never built the crowds back to what they are today and we’d be no bigger than a club like Altrincham. What did we average in our best season in the Championship? Genuine question not a clue. Other than the big games/away followings I seem to recall about 6000 or so.
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Post by des on May 20, 2024 21:28:32 GMT
With the ST news, surely even the ground naysayers accept that we need to develop EP asap, and go as big as possible? I'm not sure anyone can claim "12,000 is enough" or similar figures that were being bandied about. We're going to sell out virtually every game next season, and we're only in Division 3. Something's happening and I'm not sure anyone really predicted it. If we do continue on an upward trajectory, I can see us regularly selling out the proposed interim Main Stand/Railway End development as soon as it's done. The potential problem, if the ground doesn't get increased soon, is going up to the Championship and regularly turning people away. Even then, I'm not even sure the ultimate aim of 18,000 is going to be enough. I might be getting carried away, but selling 1000 season tickets in a few hours, on top of what we've sold anyway (because no matter what happens with renewals, these are all new ST holders) is astonishing, frankly. We’d have sold 10,000 season tickets without the cap this season easily. Maybe more.
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Post by bristolhatter on May 20, 2024 21:31:24 GMT
With the ST news, surely even the ground naysayers accept that we need to develop EP asap, and go as big as possible? I'm not sure anyone can claim "12,000 is enough" or similar figures that were being bandied about. We're going to sell out virtually every game next season, and we're only in Division 3. Something's happening and I'm not sure anyone really predicted it. If we do continue on an upward trajectory, I can see us regularly selling out the proposed interim Main Stand/Railway End development as soon as it's done. The potential problem, if the ground doesn't get increased soon, is going up to the Championship and regularly turning people away. Even then, I'm not even sure the ultimate aim of 18,000 is going to be enough. I might be getting carried away, but selling 1000 season tickets in a few hours, on top of what we've sold anyway (because no matter what happens with renewals, these are all new ST holders) is astonishing, frankly. The timing of our upsurge couldn't be better, post Covid, people are really prioritising experiences such as sport, gigs, travel etc. In the modern age of technology, we can feel closer to the team than ever, constant X updates, youtube videos etc, gone are the days of clubcall headlines! County is now genuinely "cool" to be associated with if you're a youngster, couple that with the amazing match day experience (court yard etc) and community engagement, and we'll continue to attract new fans. Of course everyone loves to be associated with a winning team and if we plateau, attendances may stagnate slightly but let's not forget if we stay at minimum league one, we'll be looking at 90% of away followings in 4 figures. United being a basket case and City selling their soul is also a massive benefit, there is no better time to grow than now. The railway end and pop side will need replacing due to age anyway, we may as well build what we think we need.
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Post by Imposter on May 21, 2024 4:05:43 GMT
I understand your concerns but I genuinely believe that our attendances in the then L1 were actually held back by our limited capacity, the amount of all ticket games (which back then was more unusual than it is today) and the away allocations. I think many people assumed they wouldn’t be able to get in and so didn’t bother trying, a capacity with a greater degree of flexibility would likely have seen our average attendance a fair bit higher. I also remember when the CE construction was underway and we had many people saying we’d never fill it and it would be a white elephant, without it we’d have never built the crowds back to what they are today and we’d be no bigger than a club like Altrincham. What did we average in our best season in the Championship? Genuine question not a clue. Other than the big games/away followings I seem to recall about 6000 or so. 8323 in that first season. A slightly more realistic average was in the second season after the excitement of it being the first season and the promotion push, that was 7,500.
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TC
Contributor
Posts: 816
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Post by TC on May 21, 2024 7:25:04 GMT
What did we average in our best season in the Championship? Genuine question not a clue. Other than the big games/away followings I seem to recall about 6000 or so. 8323 in that first season. A slightly more realistic average was in the second season after the excitement of it being the first season and the promotion push, that was 7,500. FWIW, in our relegation season, 2001/02, we averaged 6,245. It dropped to 5,489 the following season when we finished mid-table in L1.
Out of interest, anyone have any idea how many season tickets we were selling back then?
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Post by hedleyverity on May 21, 2024 7:54:16 GMT
Back in those days I don’t think we sold out games without giving the opposition 2 sides of the ground did we?
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Post by suedehead on May 21, 2024 8:09:49 GMT
Back in those days I don’t think we sold out games without giving the opposition 2 sides of the ground did we? If we go from the start of 1995, roughly when the Cheadle End opened, attendances were pretty low until we got to the second tier. Touched 6k at the back end of 95/96 a few times but generally around 4k-5k. 1996/97 we were around 4k/5k until the West Ham game but then they increased to 6k-9k for the rest of the season, with the exception of one game which was 5k. 1997/98 we didn't drop below 6k, and were generally around the 6.5k-7.5k but only City and Port Vale on Boxing Day were over 10k. Was then much of a muchness for rest of the time in the second tier, albeit lower range of 5k-7k and only really the City games getting anywhere near a sell out. In Div Two back in 2002/03 we were back down to 4k-5k, except against the likes of Oldham, Huddersfield etc who'd bring a decent following. I'm sure the Chesterfield 2-2 in 21/22 was the first time we'd done 10k since City in March 2000.
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Post by rreckless on May 21, 2024 8:11:23 GMT
I understand the concerns around the money, but I would also temper it with the thought that if Stott decided to sell, the likelihood is that it would be to someone wealthy and able to invest similarly, given the trajectory we've had over the last few years.
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Post by hedleyverity on May 21, 2024 8:29:44 GMT
Back in those days I don’t think we sold out games without giving the opposition 2 sides of the ground did we? And quite a lot of the games where we had full houses back then the away fans were in a lot more than 2 sides of the ground- City, Sunderland, Forest etc, we’ve got far more County fans going now than for 50 or 60 years
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Post by Stranded Hatter on May 21, 2024 8:33:48 GMT
Because we don’t own it Because we have no track record of anything like that level of attendance for 50 years and even in the Championship we lost fans with a levelling off and… We were already at point where we were spending £13.1M in the 4th division with this infrastructure, build that stadium and it’s £20M a year and we still don’t own it!!! Lose Stott and we lose his credit rating… 5.5% would be a(n incredibly) competitive rate… without him we would be likely paying twice that and the the next 14 years paying £25M a year to stand still… I am not saying I don’t want us to do it, I am just asking where the money is coming from and just what are we getting into..? I understand your concerns but I genuinely believe that our attendances in L1/Championship were actually held back by our limited capacity, the amount of all ticket games (which back then was more unusual than it is today) and the away allocations. I think many people assumed they wouldn’t be able to get in and so didn’t bother trying, a capacity with a greater degree of flexibility would likely have seen our average attendance a fair bit higher. I also remember when the CE construction was underway and we had many people saying we’d never fill it and it would be a white elephant, without it we’d have never built the crowds back to what they are today and we’d be no bigger than a club like Altrincham. I genuinely think if we didn’t have the Cheadle End we’d still be in non league. Certainly no Stott takeover. We’d be seen as smaller than someone like Rochdale with two small open end terraces.
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Post by Stranded Hatter on May 21, 2024 8:44:47 GMT
Back in those days I don’t think we sold out games without giving the opposition 2 sides of the ground did we? If we go from the start of 1995, roughly when the Cheadle End opened, attendances were pretty low until we got to the second tier. Touched 6k at the back end of 95/96 a few times but generally around 4k-5k. 1996/97 we were around 4k/5k until the West Ham game but then they increased to 6k-9k for the rest of the season, with the exception of one game which was 5k. 1997/98 we didn't drop below 6k, and were generally around the 6.5k-7.5k but only City and Port Vale on Boxing Day were over 10k. Was then much of a muchness for rest of the time in the second tier, albeit lower range of 5k-7k and only really the City games getting anywhere near a sell out. In Div Two back in 2002/03 we were back down to 4k-5k, except against the likes of Oldham, Huddersfield etc who'd bring a decent following. I'm sure the Chesterfield 2-2 in 21/22 was the first time we'd done 10k since City in March 2000. Weirdly I think our stint in non league is going to result in the club being bigger than it would have been if we had bumbled around near the bottom of League Two for 13 years. Would we be selling out every week winning the title on the back of a decade of just about surviving in the football league rather than it being our third league title in 5 years? As painful as the experience was, and I never want to repeat it, I think we might be a stronger club for it.
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Post by tgttiw on May 21, 2024 8:58:15 GMT
If we go from the start of 1995, roughly when the Cheadle End opened, attendances were pretty low until we got to the second tier. Touched 6k at the back end of 95/96 a few times but generally around 4k-5k. 1996/97 we were around 4k/5k until the West Ham game but then they increased to 6k-9k for the rest of the season, with the exception of one game which was 5k. 1997/98 we didn't drop below 6k, and were generally around the 6.5k-7.5k but only City and Port Vale on Boxing Day were over 10k. Was then much of a muchness for rest of the time in the second tier, albeit lower range of 5k-7k and only really the City games getting anywhere near a sell out. In Div Two back in 2002/03 we were back down to 4k-5k, except against the likes of Oldham, Huddersfield etc who'd bring a decent following. I'm sure the Chesterfield 2-2 in 21/22 was the first time we'd done 10k since City in March 2000. Weirdly I think our stint in non league is going to result in the club being bigger than it would have been if we had bumbled around near the bottom of League Two for 13 years. Would we be selling out every week winning the title on the back of a decade of just about surviving in the football league rather than it being our third league title in 5 years? As painful as the experience was, and I never want to repeat it, I think we might be a stronger club for it. Yes the nln title win cemented the core. I know recently we have been fairytale but the amis goal v bpa meant so much to me. For years no where near the playoffs then that goal made it look probable. I enjoyed the title season Great connection between fans and players. On attendances though there was no way on this planet there was 6k for that code fylde game. I reckon it was under counted so we didn't share the gate with our good friends from Blackpool!
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Post by Durango95 on May 21, 2024 9:21:32 GMT
I understand your concerns but I genuinely believe that our attendances in L1/Championship were actually held back by our limited capacity, the amount of all ticket games (which back then was more unusual than it is today) and the away allocations. I think many people assumed they wouldn’t be able to get in and so didn’t bother trying, a capacity with a greater degree of flexibility would likely have seen our average attendance a fair bit higher. I also remember when the CE construction was underway and we had many people saying we’d never fill it and it would be a white elephant, without it we’d have never built the crowds back to what they are today and we’d be no bigger than a club like Altrincham. I genuinely think if we didn’t have the Cheadle End we’d still be in non league. Certainly no Stott takeover. We’d be seen as smaller than someone like Rochdale with two small open end terraces. I agree with this. It helped us grow as a club without a shadow of a doubt. Which is why we need another one at the wank RE and the rest that follows. Way overdue. In fact right now it’s too overdue!
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