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Post by Imposter on May 22, 2020 10:44:33 GMT
Which is why you improve the matchday offering, and why you go out to the community, all sections of it, and actively invite them in to games. Show people that the live experience is better than the tv one. I think the dirty / depressing secret here is that for many people, the TV experience is better than the live one.
Society has moved increasingly indoors at a massive rate, and posting selfies of you and your bantz matez throwing a plastic pint pot in the air from the pub on insta is now the 'modern fan' experience that a number of people seem to want.
Seem to remember reading that the average ST holder now in their late 40s / early 50s at most clubs (this may be an EPL only stat can't rememeber?)- very different from the traditional football fan image of the 20 something man.
I'm not so sure. When the club go out and invite people in they get a pretty good response be it the schools or community ticket schemes. And of those who come a pretty large number enough it and want to come back. Showing if you take the time to show them you will actually get a decent few going, "sod tv, this is miles better". Which is why you further improve on the experience inside and stretch your reach further and further to invite more and more people, particularly children pre-fixed allegiance in. |
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Post by Imposter on May 22, 2020 10:52:22 GMT
I think expecting us to more than double our 'good day' gates, and possibly treble our bad/average day gates, is very ambitious, certainly in anything less than a 25 year plan, even allowing for increased away followings. But the increased away followings are a bit of a red herring too. League One isn't full of clubs who'll bring 4k every week, there's only a small number who'd bring more than 2k unless it was a pivotal end of season or first day of the season game. Sunderland are the obvious one but, looking at the top of L1 now, the likes of Oxford, Wycombe, Peterborough, Doncaster would struggle to fill the Railway End on a normal Saturday now. Even in the Championship, we'd definitely get some big gates with Leeds, West Brom, Forest, Brum but Millwall, Brentford, Wigan, Charlton, Reading, QPR, Luton, Barnsley wouldn't fill their allocation now, I doubt even Swansea, Boro, Blackburn, Cardiff and other middle of the road clubs would either, unless it was for a blockbuster game. I'd like us to get 15k-20k gates, but unless the plan is to fill it was divvy day trippers and tourists (which I'd hate and would ruin games for me), it's a very, very long game coupled with sustained success. Yes it would be long-term, a good 15-20 years. On the subject of away attendances the 3k figure was made up of away fans AND those on the free ticket scheme. In this curtailed Championship season only 3 teams averaged less than 1,000 fans on their away travels, with the average, mean, median about 1500. Throw in 1500 freebies and there's the 3k figure. Not to mention if we get the accommodation and offer right County might get more away fans as we should be seen as a cracking away day - Mainline station 10 minutes walk away. Town centre and bus station a further 5. Local high street with pubs, shops, eateries etc..between station and ground. 5 minutes from motorway and main A roads. Cracking pubs, and bars, especially for real/craft ale fans in the town centre. 🙂 |
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Post by desmond on May 22, 2020 11:00:00 GMT
And besides, is it possible to add an upper tier to the Moan stand without having to demolish the houses behind it? Not really, unless completely rebuilt from scratch using the present footprint, and even then not much of an increase I suspect. Very expensive for little gain.
But the current stand could easily be extended the full length of the pitch, and given a modern roof... would add about 1100 seats maybe? Much cheaper, and retains a lot of the "character" of EP. If there was a redeveloped Pop side with maybe a 2nd tier along with a new stand at the railway end I don’t think there’s any need to extend the main stand. Just replace the roof and side walls and leave it as it is, a thing of beauty. |
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Post by Stranded Hatter on May 22, 2020 11:05:25 GMT
Which is why you improve the matchday offering, and why you go out to the community, all sections of it, and actively invite them in to games. Show people that the live experience is better than the tv one. I think the dirty / depressing secret here is that for many people, the TV experience is better than the live one.
Society has moved increasingly indoors at a massive rate, and posting selfies of you and your bantz matez throwing a plastic pint pot in the air from the pub on insta is now the 'modern fan' experience that a number of people seem to want.
Seem to remember reading that the average ST holder now in their late 40s / early 50s at most clubs (this may be an EPL only stat can't rememeber?)- very different from the traditional football fan image of the 20 something man.
I can’t help but think the reason the average season ticket holder is older is because younger fans have simply been priced out of the game, particularly at the highest level. I know a handful of season ticket holders in their 20s, at Premier League clubs, and they’re almost all paid for by parents who also have season tickets. Whereas those I know from school who grew up supporting the likes of Brentford are more likely to have their own season ticket they pay for. Most of my mates would love to watch football live every week, they just can’t afford it. |
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Post by sk5countyfan on May 22, 2020 11:05:43 GMT
I think expecting us to more than double our 'good day' gates, and possibly treble our bad/average day gates, is very ambitious, certainly in anything less than a 25 year plan, even allowing for increased away followings. But the increased away followings are a bit of a red herring too. League One isn't full of clubs who'll bring 4k every week, there's only a small number who'd bring more than 2k unless it was a pivotal end of season or first day of the season game. Sunderland are the obvious one but, looking at the top of L1 now, the likes of Oxford, Wycombe, Peterborough, Doncaster would struggle to fill the Railway End on a normal Saturday now. Even in the Championship, we'd definitely get some big gates with Leeds, West Brom, Forest, Brum but Millwall, Brentford, Wigan, Charlton, Reading, QPR, Luton, Barnsley wouldn't fill their allocation now, I doubt even Swansea, Boro, Blackburn, Cardiff and other middle of the road clubs would either, unless it was for a blockbuster game. I'd like us to get 15k-20k gates, but unless the plan is to fill it was divvy day trippers and tourists (which I'd hate and would ruin games for me), it's a very, very long game coupled with sustained success. Back in the old days.teams like Bradford Barnsley and Doncaster would bring plenty of fans.so I'm sure most would full the railway end.and most of the popside |
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Post by philtheglass on May 22, 2020 11:07:53 GMT
If the Main stand were to be redeveloped, i think it would be mainly for corporate/hospitality use, with upper tier boxes & lower tier seats along the length of the pitch, plus the changing rooms could do with enlarging, so again there is scope in that stand for that.
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Post by Durango95 on May 22, 2020 12:09:56 GMT
The Main Stand will almost certainly stay as it is. That's fine it's the old skool stand and gives us character. Be nice to get rid of the asbestos roof and we've got people in charge who know what they're doing but I doubt that will happen soon. The Cheadle End refurb is all about the underneath - redeveloping the corporate which was tatty and very dated as you'd expect. What they said would happen in time is a full new redeveloped Pop Side and RE which we've needed for a while. A few have said it's nerdy but I would've thought everyone gets excited with this sort of stuff. I remember when this happened it was very exciting. Especially as the CE was tiny.  That was over 25 years ago. We've been crying out for some proper redevelopment of the ground. A decent 5,000 seats in the pop side with all the corporate boxes/extras, food and drink and new changing rooms underneath etc would be great. 3,000 at the RE with decent facilities you'd expect and make it the away end. Be more than enough even for the biggest games. That would be nice wouldn't it.  |
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Post by Stranded Hatter on May 22, 2020 13:25:03 GMT
The Main Stand will almost certainly stay as it is. That's fine it's be the old skool stand and gives us character. Be nice to get rid of the asbestos roof and we've got people in charge who know what they're doing but I doubt that will happen soon. The Cheadle End refurb is all about the underneath - redeveloping the corporate which was tatty and very dated as you'd expect. What they said would happen in time is a full new redeveloped Pop Side and RE which we've needed for a while. A few have said it's nerdy but I would've thought everyone gets excited with this sort of stuff. I remember when this happened it was very exciting. Especially as the CE was tiny. That was over 25 years ago. We've been crying out for some proper redevelopment of the ground. A decent 5,000 seats in the pop side with all the corporate boxes/extras, food and drink and new changing rooms underneath etc would be great. 3,000 at the RE with decent facilities you'd expect and make it the away end. Be more than enough even for the biggest games. That would be nice wouldn't it. I don’t care if it’s nerdy, I’m with you all the way. I used to prefer the old PlayStation management sim LMA Manager to Champ Manager solely because you could develop your ground. It’s a feature I hope they bring in to Football Manager some day although given the number of clubs they cover I sort of understand why they haven’t done. A renovated Cheadle End, re-roofed Main Stand, new Railway End and Popside (the Popside becoming the new “main stand”) of equal heights (with the option to fill the corners at both ends of the Popside) would bring the ground into the 21st century while maintaining what makes EP, EP. I really can’t wait until we start seeing plans. |
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Post by vicar on May 22, 2020 13:36:34 GMT
The pop side would look great with corporate boxes behind the existing seats and a new roof, be good to switch the changing rooms and dug out to that side too.
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Post by Stranded Hatter on May 22, 2020 13:55:07 GMT
The pop side would look great with corporate boxes behind the existing seats and a new roof, be good to switch the changing rooms and dug out to that side too. I think we’d be better off with a whole new stand rather than just expanding the Popside backwards. The seats are bolted to the old terrace so it’s quite shallow compared to what we could get with a new stand. |
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Post by philtheglass on May 22, 2020 14:18:30 GMT
Think the Main stand has been living on borrowed time for ages, can't keep patching it up, definately needs modernising & taking the length of the pitch
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 14:25:24 GMT
15000 capacity when we can't even fill 10,800? My very uninformed impression has been that community engagement (especially with young people, schools, etc) has been very good over the years, but the new owners will have to do even better if we're to fill an expanded capacity (I'm sure they will, if only because they have lots more resources, but I suspect there's only so much anyone can do). Moreover, surely improving the matchday experience is more important for boosting and retaining crowds than increasing capacity? And besides, is it possible to add an upper tier to the Moan stand without having to demolish the houses behind it? Few points really. Firstly, I don't think anyone thinks your capacity should be set at what you currently fill, surely? Apart from the Prem, and a few in the FL, no one sells out their ground for every game - everyone has additional capacity, and even if it's only filled once or twice every couple of seasons, it makes sense to have it. If we do start to progress back to where we used to be - in the Championship - we could easily sell out a 15,000 ground fairly regularly. Big "if," I know, but our new owners have said that's their aim. We're at 10 and a half thousand at the moment, and that'd probably be closer to 11 with a few seat repairs. So I think if we did develop both the Pop and RE, we'd get towards 15,000 anyway, simply as part of a development (assuming "development" involved building work and didn't just mean "replace seats"). Effectively, I don't think having less than 15,000 would be an option. Finally, for me another tier on the Main Stand is a non-starter. My preference would be to go full pitch length at either side, and replace the roof with one that doesn't require stanchions. Trying to go up would cause no end of problems with Hardcastle Road, and it's not worth it with so much land elsewhere. As I've said before, my preference would be to turn the pitch 90 degrees and have the main stand behind the goal, but I suspect that's a non-starter. |
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Post by Henry Pratt on May 22, 2020 14:28:02 GMT
The Main Stand will almost certainly stay as it is. That's fine it's be the old skool stand and gives us character. Be nice to get rid of the asbestos roof and we've got people in charge who know what they're doing but I doubt that will happen soon. The Cheadle End refurb is all about the underneath - redeveloping the corporate which was tatty and very dated as you'd expect. What they said would happen in time is a full new redeveloped Pop Side and RE which we've needed for a while. A few have said it's nerdy but I would've thought everyone gets excited with this sort of stuff. I remember when this happened it was very exciting. Especially as the CE was tiny. That was over 25 years ago. We've been crying out for some proper redevelopment of the ground. A decent 5,000 seats in the pop side with all the corporate boxes/extras, food and drink and new changing rooms underneath etc would be great. 3,000 at the RE with decent facilities you'd expect and make it the away end. Be more than enough even for the biggest games. That would be nice wouldn't it.  I don’t care if it’s nerdy, I’m with you all the way. I used to prefer the old PlayStation management sim LMA Manager to Champ Manager solely because you could develop your ground. It’s a feature I hope they bring in to Football Manager some day although given the number of clubs they cover I sort of understand why they haven’t done. A renovated Cheadle End, re-roofed Main Stand, new Railway End and Popside (the Popside becoming the new “main stand”) of equal heights (with the option to fill the corners at both ends of the Popside) would bring the ground into the 21st century while maintaining what makes EP, EP. I really can’t wait until we start seeing plans. Agree with you both, with one proviso, Stranded. When the Popside was seated in the early 90s, it was done with the intention of eventually adding a second tier (I believe the foundations were improved to facilitate that). So adding an extra tier would be (relatively) cheaper than the second tier of a new stand if you were starting from scratch. I agree a redeveloped Pop Side would be a better new main stand, but for me it'd need two tiers (apologies if that's what you meant by "equal heights") |
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Post by Henry Pratt on May 22, 2020 14:32:49 GMT
The pop side would look great with corporate boxes behind the existing seats and a new roof, be good to switch the changing rooms and dug out to that side too. I think we’d be better off with a whole new stand rather than just expanding the Popside backwards. The seats are bolted to the old terrace so it’s quite shallow compared to what we could get with a new stand. See my other reply, but I do know that the old terrace was completely excavated and new concrete laid before the seats were added. The old terrace was tarmac topped, I think. The one new is all concrete. And the rake was definitely also improved, because the old terrace rake was too shallow |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2020 14:38:43 GMT
Its 2020 not 1883 and seeing is most things are changing at County and everyone is loving it so why not as Henry Pratt says he prefers and turn the pitch 90 degrees?
We could then demolish the main stand completely and just have a basic single tiered terrace as we have in the Pop side now but also keep whats left of the Pop Side, theres nothing there of consequence and it could act as emergency overflow for away fans if needed.
We could then put an extra tier on the Cheadle End with exec boxes and better food and bar facilities for all .
Just leave the away fans in the Railway as it is.
We cant live in the past anymore radical changes are needed given after the pandemic slowly finishes.County have to evolve to stay strong and exist .
Forget the old bring in the new our history should start again now.
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