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Post by herbiedumplings on Aug 16, 2024 8:35:31 GMT
As I said Vic, they need to go after the facilitators that wind these people up and provide the platform for them to spew their bile. However, when there are residential buildings being set on fire by rioting mobs and you are inciting others to do it then you can’t see any issue with being banged up. Much better than being burnt alive. I've just seen a shocking video where Chris Packham (BBC presenter and tree hugger) told people to set themselves on fire if they dare to bank with Barclays. If a "normal" person said that on video they'd be in handcuffs and looking at a few years in prison, wouldn't they? I think lots of people in the UK don't like the double standards that are seemingly being applied in some cases. Given the sentences being handed to JSO protestors, I don’t think that’s outside the realms of possibility now the show’s been aired, although there are subtle differences as @nik has alluded to. Plus it was at an event protesting against blood sports, which is additional context you failed to mention. I certainly doubt he’ll work in the MSM again, neurodivergent tendencies or otherwise, however. Next example of supposed injustice, please?
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Post by HTC on Aug 16, 2024 8:43:22 GMT
If Packham had said, 'let's go and burn anyone who banks with Barclays', you might have a case.
The 'both sides' comparitor here is the labour councillor telling an actual crowd of people to 'slit throats'. To me, that feels like something that requires a longer sentence than someone gobbing off online, but the case hasn't been heard yet.
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Post by desmond on Aug 16, 2024 9:01:14 GMT
If Packham had said, 'let's go and burn anyone who banks with Barclays', you might have a case. The 'both sides' comparitor here is the labour councillor telling an actual crowd of people to 'slit throats'. To me, that feels like something that requires a longer sentence than someone gobbing off online, but the case hasn't been heard yet. That councillor has been charged IIRC and been remanded in custody so it’s not looking good for him (As is correct).
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Post by scfc73 on Aug 16, 2024 9:38:36 GMT
When you put it in a bit of persepctive, she got off lightly. A few others have just received much longer sentences for their use of the internet - just change the issue from islamophobia to environmentalism, change the platform from Facebook to Zoom and change the tone from hateful and aggressive to non-violent protest. The differences are negligible, yet she only got 20% of the punishment. These rioting and violent disorder sentences are taking place against the context of the outrageously disproportionate Just Stop Oil punishments handed down the week before, that's the root cause IMHO, 20% is about as lenient as they could get away with giving her, and even then it's a bit of a stretch, pun not intended. Fully supportive of the JSO sentences. In fact, lock 'em up & throw away the key. This is based purely on the fact that my job entails coating parts that are used in the exploration for new oil. I'm probably the devil incarnate to a JSO supporter🤣
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Post by herbiedumplings on Aug 16, 2024 9:41:34 GMT
When you put it in a bit of persepctive, she got off lightly. A few others have just received much longer sentences for their use of the internet - just change the issue from islamophobia to environmentalism, change the platform from Facebook to Zoom and change the tone from hateful and aggressive to non-violent protest. The differences are negligible, yet she only got 20% of the punishment. These rioting and violent disorder sentences are taking place against the context of the outrageously disproportionate Just Stop Oil punishments handed down the week before, that's the root cause IMHO, 20% is about as lenient as they could get away with giving her, and even then it's a bit of a stretch, pun not intended. Fully supportive of the JSO sentences. In fact, lock 'em up & throw away the key. This is based purely on the fact that my job entails coating parts that are used in the exploration for new oil. I'm probably the devil incarnate to a JSO supporter🤣 As a lapsed chemical engineer, I’d be the first to point out that anyone other than perhaps Ray Mears doesn’t really want oil stopped. Not altogether. But then, as a lapsed chemical engineer, I’d also suggest the stuff’s far too useful to just burn!
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Post by bigmartin on Aug 16, 2024 10:59:06 GMT
Not even the JSO gang actually believe in what they're saying. And people aren't stupid and know it's totally unrealistic. And of course, I bring back that old chestnut about people 'walking the walk'. The JSO gang demonstrably do not...
I've never understood their talking point. If they basically demonstrated to "reduce oil" or "reduce and replace oil with cleaner energies" then I'm in. But you can't argue JSO when you're using oil. It's just bollocks. What they're actually saying is "people, but not me, should JSO".
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Post by bigmartin on Aug 16, 2024 11:18:40 GMT
You did talk about using Royal Navy hovercrafts to "blow" them back to Calais though... That'd possibly work, either way it looks like Starmer so far is on a par with Truss and Sunak when it comes to solving the problem. Not because I'm trying to be smart, but because I genuinely think you may not know this. And I'm dog-minding and a bit bored. Hovercrafts don't have brakes. So they cannot 'brace' themselves in place and blow something behind them backwards. And they can't really reverse, so they can't 'chase' stuff behind them to push them backwards. Probably be best towing them with the hovercraft to be honest.
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Post by stalybridgehatter on Aug 16, 2024 11:21:27 GMT
Fully supportive of the JSO sentences. In fact, lock 'em up & throw away the key. This is based purely on the fact that my job entails coating parts that are used in the exploration for new oil. I'm probably the devil incarnate to a JSO supporter🤣 As a lapsed chemical engineer, I’d be the first to point out that anyone other than perhaps Ray Mears doesn’t really want oil stopped. Not altogether. But then, as a lapsed chemical engineer, I’d also suggest the stuff’s far too useful to just burn! Just Use Less Oil! Catchy, don't ya think? 🤣
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Post by nelly on Aug 16, 2024 11:43:47 GMT
Not even the JSO gang actually believe in what they're saying. And people aren't stupid and know it's totally unrealistic. And of course, I bring back that old chestnut about people 'walking the walk'. The JSO gang demonstrably do not... I've never understood their talking point. If they basically demonstrated to "reduce oil" or "reduce and replace oil with cleaner energies" then I'm in. But you can't argue JSO when you're using oil. It's just bollocks. What they're actually saying is "people, but not me, should JSO". Why don't they go to Saudi Arabia and protest ? See what happens to them there.
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Mozzer
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Post by Mozzer on Aug 16, 2024 12:05:18 GMT
Not even the JSO gang actually believe in what they're saying. And people aren't stupid and know it's totally unrealistic. And of course, I bring back that old chestnut about people 'walking the walk'. The JSO gang demonstrably do not... I've never understood their talking point. If they basically demonstrated to "reduce oil" or "reduce and replace oil with cleaner energies" then I'm in. But you can't argue JSO when you're using oil. It's just bollocks. What they're actually saying is "people, but not me, should JSO". No they're not. And this is the same argument used against socialists who want a different system but use the capitalist system because, er, there isn't another one. You either live with what you have and try to change it where you can or you accept it. But living within the existing isn't hypocritical except in a very purest sense that doesn't have any regard to reality. Your argument against anyone seeking to reduce carbon tends to be that if they're not making all the right choices all the time, they're hypocrites. Which is true as far as it goes, but doesn't acknowledge that it remains better to do something than to do nothing. Clearly if you're doing nothing and banging on about it, you are massive hypocrite, but, in crude terms, it is better to vegetarian then it is to be an omnivore even if it is better to be vegan than it is to be a vegetarian (in the context of climate change).
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Mozzer
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Post by Mozzer on Aug 16, 2024 12:16:08 GMT
Not even the JSO gang actually believe in what they're saying. And people aren't stupid and know it's totally unrealistic. And of course, I bring back that old chestnut about people 'walking the walk'. The JSO gang demonstrably do not... I've never understood their talking point. If they basically demonstrated to "reduce oil" or "reduce and replace oil with cleaner energies" then I'm in. But you can't argue JSO when you're using oil. It's just bollocks. What they're actually saying is "people, but not me, should JSO". Why don't they go to Saudi Arabia and protest ? See what happens to them there. They'd be criticised for travelling there. But apart from the obvious reasons, if you want to reduce oil usage you don't do that by stopping an oil producer from producing oil. You do it by finding alternative methods that mean you buy less from oil producers. That is more likely to occur here rather than there. Would have the added bonus that anyone who uses oil would then not be a hypocrite whenever they criticised the human rights record of any of these countries. I think.
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Post by mattyovrio on Aug 16, 2024 13:07:10 GMT
Abandoning oil for alternative fuel would have the added advantage of stopping giving money to the human rights abusers who shovel a chunk of it into the faded blues up the road.
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Post by edjelley on Aug 16, 2024 13:49:33 GMT
Bit surprised to see the government have handed the train drivers the large pay increase demanded without any need for the reforms requested. I wonder how this will affect other pay demands from others? Does everyone just get what they want now. Have much more sympathy for those at the lower pay scale but some of these pay awards for those on very decent wages already,particularly in the public sector, are surprising,as well as the train companies employees. Lots of people in the private sector and self employed still struggling along,many of whom had little support during covid,unlike the public sector who had many months off fully paid. All seems a bit of an uneven field?
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Mozzer
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Post by Mozzer on Aug 16, 2024 14:14:07 GMT
Not sure where you get the idea the public sector had months off fully paid where the private sector didn't. Every public sector worker I know was working throughout. Some of them were as frontline as you want to get as well.
For information, as far back 18months ago the train drivers' strikes were estimated to have cost the country 1billion quid (you can add 15-25m quid per day since then) and it was said at that time that it would have been cheaper to have addressed the pay demand. Which communist said this? Huw Merriman, Rail Minister for the Conservative government at the time.
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Post by Nik on Aug 16, 2024 14:22:27 GMT
Bit surprised to see the government have handed the train drivers the large pay increase demanded without any need for the reforms requested. I wonder how this will affect other pay demands from others? Does everyone just get what they want now. Have much more sympathy for those at the lower pay scale but some of these pay awards for those on very decent wages already,particularly in the public sector, are surprising,as well as the train companies employees. Lots of people in the private sector and self employed still struggling along,many of whom had little support during covid,unlike the public sector who had many months off fully paid. All seems a bit of an uneven field? Not quite sure where you've got the idea that the public sector had many months off on full pay. www.taxpayersalliance.com/public_sector_furloughThere were only 8,437 public sector workers furloughed out of ~5.7million public sector workers, which works out at about 0.14% of public sector workers. That data doesn't mean the were even furloughed for the entirety of the pandemic either. Every single public sector worker I know worked their full hours for the entirety of COVID. You're way off with this one.
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