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Post by BWScarf on Feb 3, 2021 12:26:44 GMT
Name me a single manager in professional football that doesn’t have a ‘type’ of signing, Gibbo. To word it another way, having the 'particular type of signing that Gannon has'? If the best player we could get was Player A, but the Manager doesn't like that type of player so we get a lesser player in Player B, then we're restricting ourselves. The assumption on here is that Jim didn't want Player A (Rooney), as he prefers younger / inexperienced players (Player B). We're therefore not signing the best players we can get. Now I suppose your argument back to me could be (and maybe a valid one), you're rather have Manager A (Jim you'll say) and Player B than Player A (Rooney) and Manager C (Rusk? - tbc). We can debate whether JG’s policy was right or not. Maybe we didn’t always get the best players available to him, I don’t know. We do know that his policy served us well over a long period of time though. It’s not really about JG though. For me, two things matter here: - Firstly, no manager (including SR!) should have players imposed upon them that they don’t want, or don’t think will fit into their plans. I don’t know whether that happened with Rooney/Gannon; all I’m saying is it didn’t *feel* like the kind of signing he’d have made. He might have been on board with it for all I know - but it would’ve been a departure from his modus operandi. - Secondly, I don’t think the best players available are necessarily always the right ones for us. It’s far more important that they’re the right characters to slot into the team, and that as individuals they elevate one another to be more than the sum of their parts. I think there were better players (theoretically) available when we won the title. Glenn Taylor is probably a more gifted footballer than Frank Mulhern, for example. But as a team, the players we had brought the best out of one another. The most egregious example of the opposite is Real Madrid’s galácticos, I suppose. So in short, I think it’s less that Manager A and Player B is better than Manager B and Player A; and more whether what we’ve got is the best it can be, all things considered. |
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Post by gibbo on Feb 3, 2021 12:30:52 GMT
I think he did want him, but as he's got to know his personality it's become clear he's not a Jim sort of player in terms of his attitude. Jim would have persevered and tried to get him to fit our culture, but he would have gone eventually with a board that did the right thing and backed the manager over players. I think it's a fatal flaw to give the players that power. It clearly suited Wilson's agenda this time, but it will come back to bite him in the future. Rooney was hardly a failure under Gannon though was he? Wonder if we're making more of the attitude aspect than there actually is to it. |
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Post by Philcounty on Feb 3, 2021 12:39:09 GMT
I think he did want him, but as he's got to know his personality it's become clear he's not a Jim sort of player in terms of his attitude. Jim would have persevered and tried to get him to fit our culture, but he would have gone eventually with a board that did the right thing and backed the manager over players. I think it's a fatal flaw to give the players that power. It clearly suited Wilson's agenda this time, but it will come back to bite him in the future. Rooney was hardly a failure under Gannon though was he? Wonder if we're making more of the attitude aspect than there actually is to it. No I've said he's a very good player, but Jim himself raised questions over his attitude after the ridiculous red card at Hartlepool. He's scored more goals than anyone else and has probably won us more points than any other player, he should be my favourite player by a long way, but there's just something about his demeanor that doesn't sit well. There's a different attitude to the team than we've ever seen with a Jim team before and I get the impression (granted as an outsider looking in) that Rooney is one of the key characters in this new culture. He could well be the best player in our league, but he's not worth it if he's a bad influence on the rest of the squad. |
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Post by Lee on Feb 3, 2021 12:40:15 GMT
I think he did want him, but as he's got to know his personality it's become clear he's not a Jim sort of player in terms of his attitude. Jim would have persevered and tried to get him to fit our culture, but he would have gone eventually with a board that did the right thing and backed the manager over players. I think it's a fatal flaw to give the players that power. It clearly suited Wilson's agenda this time, but it will come back to bite him in the future. Rooney was hardly a failure under Gannon though was he? Wonder if we're making more of the attitude aspect than there actually is to it. I think there is a bit of that. Granted I'm never around the club or training but whenever I've watched games Rooney seems fairly vocal and supportive. |
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Post by timberwolf on Feb 3, 2021 12:41:24 GMT
Rooney was hardly a failure under Gannon though was he? Wonder if we're making more of the attitude aspect than there actually is to it. rooney was never criticised before the hartlepool sending off. the only thing didcussed about him was wether he should be what they call it a number 8 or 10. |
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Post by slomasscfc on Feb 3, 2021 12:43:31 GMT
Jim 100% wanted Rooney, I was in Prince Albert just after takeover at the table where he was speaking to Bellis saying that if Bramhall hadn't delayed the takeover hadn't been delayed we would have had Bennett, Rooney and Jordan Williams prior to start of last season, so he got all those he wanted I've no doubt he did, Rooney is clearly a very good player at this level. Just making the point that Jim was hardly going to say anything else even if he did have reservations. I think he did want him, but as he's got to know his personality it's become clear he's not a Jim sort of player in terms of his attitude. Jim would have persevered and tried to get him to fit our culture, but he would have gone eventually with a board that did the right thing and backed the manager over players. I think it's a fatal flaw to give the players that power. It clearly suited Wilson's agenda this time, but it will come back to bite him in the future. Daft sending off at Hartlepool im yet to see evidence of our star player being a so called bad egg, he wouldn't be one of top scorers in the league and at heart of most good things in an attacking sense if he was a bad egg I'm sure Jim would done his research on type of character he was bringing in and conversed with him prior to signing him |
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Post by atmosphere on Feb 3, 2021 12:48:33 GMT
Gannon questioned the culture of the group and that he knew something like this was bound to happen after Rooney was sent off at Hartlepool. So it had obviously come from somewhere.
If someone was daft enough to put in a decent bid for Rooney based on his stats, we should bite their hands off. 30 years old, not controlled or disciplined enough to play in a deep role and doesn't link the game well enough in tight areas to be a quality 10. He has some good qualities, good set pieces and a very good striker of the ball but considering he was the most high profile signing, it is been a dud for me so far. Has he turned up against a decent side yet?
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Post by timberwolf on Feb 3, 2021 12:48:38 GMT
Rooney was hardly a failure under Gannon though was he? Wonder if we're making more of the attitude aspect than there actually is to it. or actually are fans just keen on having a go at him because of his unpopular brother is some,s eyes. must admit myself before we signed him at his previous clubs are was delighted when he made a bad pass or put the ball out of the ground in shots. now he is with us i want him to do well which on the whole he has. we have fans who would love to have bell and thomas in the team as regulars but are quick to knock the new lads. |
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Post by sk5countyfan on Feb 3, 2021 12:52:21 GMT
Rooney Hogan Maynard have one thing in common.and would walk into most national league teams and are not the reason for the team doing badly
Just look how many sloppy goals Bens conceded
And players JG thought were good enough.but just haven't turned up yet..C.Jennings Williams Bell Thomas
They are the reason the teams doing badly.not a player like Rooney who wouldn't surprise me if he won national league player of the season..again
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Post by Philcounty on Feb 3, 2021 12:53:55 GMT
Worst players this season are all JG picks Hinchliffe C.Jennings Williams Bell Thomas But let's pretend players doing OK are JG signings..and everybody else were forced on him Let's not miss out: Keane Reid Croasdale Minihan Who are all definitely Jim signings and Kitching as well who probably was too. The point you're missing is that the players such as Hogan, Rooney and Maynard who certainly don't look like Jim signings on paper have all put in good performances this season. Hogan and Maynard less consistently, but Rooney is clearly our most influential player. Nobody is questioning their ability. Jim in the past has always put a lot of emphasis on signing players based on personality and attitude. That has served us well and has given us success in recent years. We've had good players who've not had a great attitude (Proudlock, McConville, Nolan etc.) and they've fallen by the way side even though they were better than what we had at the time. We've lost those players, but the team has ended up being better off for it. A board that backed out manager would have trusted his judgement and if a player like Rooney could not sort his attitude out, he would have and should have been the one leaving. |
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Post by slomasscfc on Feb 3, 2021 12:54:22 GMT
Gannon questioned the culture of the group and that he knew something like this was bound to happen after Rooney was sent off at Hartlepool. So it had obviously come from somewhere. If someone was daft enough to put in a decent bid for Rooney based on his stats, we should bite their hands off. 30 years old, not controlled or disciplined enough to play in a deep role and doesn't link the game well enough in tight areas to be a quality 10. He has some good qualities, good set pieces and a very good striker of the ball but considering he was the most high profile signing, it is been a dud for me so far. Has he turned up against a decent side yet? Has anybody turned up against a decent side yet? Our record against top teams is bobbins thats not down to one man, that's a collective, he was excellent against Rochdale though |
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Post by atmosphere on Feb 3, 2021 12:55:38 GMT
Rooney Hogan Maynard have one thing in common.and would walk into most national league teams and are not the reason for the team doing badly Just look how many sloppy goals Bens conceded And players JG thought were good enough.but just haven't turned up yet..C.Jennings Williams Bell Thomas They are the reason the teams doing badly.not a player like Rooney who wouldn't surprise me if he won national league player of the season..again Rooney player of the year only because he's famous and posts some good numbers. Anybody who watches the games or values good team play wouldn't touch him to start in midfield for a decent National side, never mind player of the year.
And as for Maynard, walking is an adequete description of him. An absolute clogger. Makes Harry Winter look like Pirlo.
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Post by atmosphere on Feb 3, 2021 12:57:13 GMT
Gannon questioned the culture of the group and that he knew something like this was bound to happen after Rooney was sent off at Hartlepool. So it had obviously come from somewhere. If someone was daft enough to put in a decent bid for Rooney based on his stats, we should bite their hands off. 30 years old, not controlled or disciplined enough to play in a deep role and doesn't link the game well enough in tight areas to be a quality 10. He has some good qualities, good set pieces and a very good striker of the ball but considering he was the most high profile signing, it is been a dud for me so far. Has he turned up against a decent side yet? Has anybody turned up against a decent side yet? Our record against top teams is bobbins thats not down to one man, that's a collective, he was excellent against Rochdale though Sensational strike against Rochdale. He can't half strike a ball, I'll give him that. Apart from the first 20, we barely had the ball. Jim hooked him early because he was losing opposition runners. Overall game? Not for me.
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Post by m14hatter on Feb 3, 2021 12:59:06 GMT
Rooney Hogan Maynard have one thing in common.and would walk into most national league teams and are not the reason for the team doing badly Just look how many sloppy goals Bens conceded And players JG thought were good enough.but just haven't turned up yet..C.Jennings Williams Bell Thomas They are the reason the teams doing badly.not a player like Rooney who wouldn't surprise me if he won national league player of the season..again Rooney player of the year only because he's famous and posts some good numbers. Anybody who watches the games or values good team play wouldn't touch him to start in midfield for a decent National side, never mind player of the year.
And as for Maynard, walking is an adequete description of him. An absolute clogger. Makes Harry Winter look like Pirlo.
Absolute nonsense about Rooney. He’d walk into any national league side and I think quite a few in league 2 would love him as well. He’s up there for chances created and goals scored. Without him we’d be a lot worse off in terms of points. Agree about Maynard though. Barring a couple of games he’s looked really poor this season and I’d like to see someone else come in. |
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Post by atmosphere on Feb 3, 2021 13:07:09 GMT
Rooney player of the year only because he's famous and posts some good numbers. Anybody who watches the games or values good team play wouldn't touch him to start in midfield for a decent National side, never mind player of the year.
And as for Maynard, walking is an adequete description of him. An absolute clogger. Makes Harry Winter look like Pirlo.
Absolute nonsense about Rooney. He’d walk into any national league side and I think quite a few in league 2 would love him as well. He’s up there for chances created and goals scored. Without him we’d be a lot worse off in terms of points. Agree about Maynard though. Barring a couple of games he’s looked really poor this season and I’d like to see someone else come in. Rooney's 30. How many Football League games has he played? Nobody in League 2 would sign him. His style of play is not beneficial to cohesive team play, getting strikers in the game, freeing up wingers etc. Going off his skill set, he would fit better deeper with the picture in front of him more. But the problem with that is he's not disciplined or defensivley switched on to excel there. Rooney's awareness in tight spaces is poor even for this level, not ideal for a number 10 who needs to link play. Watch on Saturday how many times it breaks down with him on the ball.
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