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Post by ebbs on Feb 3, 2021 18:09:35 GMT
Would be interesting to see the footage of that tackle from the Main Stand.
It looked a nailed on penalty from the one angle we had on the stream.
Did Liam Hogan get sent off for the challenge or was something said afterwards? Red looked like he was going to give him a yellow, then changed his mind.
Even if it was a good tackle, it was very high risk. A seemingly good tackle has led to a penalty and a red card! Think Hogan would have been much better off sheparding the striker wider and leaving Hinchcliffe to cover the near post.
I think it’s unfair for any player to be told he would have been better doing something differently when he’s (apparently) made a perfectly well timed tackle and the referee has messed it up. You’ll often hear the pundits on MOTD saying how well times a tackle was and if he’s got it wrong it would have been a penalty, last ditch tackles are part of the game and I wouldn’t want to make any player think he shouldn’t make them if he’s confident he’s going to win the ball. Also seen a tweet from JK that says before last night Hogan had only had 1 Red in 10 years, he’s clearly not the hot head that some have been making him out to be. Maybe not a hot head in a game then, but what about in and around the team, the dressing room?, what happened after the Torquay game that meant Jim felt he had to leave him out of the squad completely for the next game, what about the times he seemed to be arguing back with Jim on the side. All adds to atmosphere around the club. |
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Post by wnm on Feb 3, 2021 18:14:53 GMT
I think it’s unfair for any player to be told he would have been better doing something differently when he’s (apparently) made a perfectly well timed tackle and the referee has messed it up. You’ll often hear the pundits on MOTD saying how well times a tackle was and if he’s got it wrong it would have been a penalty, last ditch tackles are part of the game and I wouldn’t want to make any player think he shouldn’t make them if he’s confident he’s going to win the ball. Also seen a tweet from JK that says before last night Hogan had only had 1 Red in 10 years, he’s clearly not the hot head that some have been making him out to be. Maybe not a hot head in a game then, but what about in and around the team, the dressing room?, what happened after the Torquay game that meant Jim felt he had to leave him out of the squad completely for the next game, what about the times he seemed to be arguing back with Jim on the side. All adds to atmosphere around the club. The Torquay stuff I can’t explain because I don’t know the ins and outs but I’ve seen absolutely loads of our players, including ones he’s signed on more than one occasion, argue with him during games. |
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Post by redhatter on Feb 3, 2021 18:44:04 GMT
Would be interesting to see the footage of that tackle from the Main Stand.
It looked a nailed on penalty from the one angle we had on the stream.
Did Liam Hogan get sent off for the challenge or was something said afterwards? Red looked like he was going to give him a yellow, then changed his mind.
Even if it was a good tackle, it was very high risk. A seemingly good tackle has led to a penalty and a red card! Think Hogan would have been much better off sheparding the striker wider and leaving Hinchcliffe to cover the near post.
I think it’s unfair for any player to be told he would have been better doing something differently when he’s (apparently) made a perfectly well timed tackle and the referee has messed it up. You’ll often hear the pundits on MOTD saying how well times a tackle was and if he’s got it wrong it would have been a penalty, last ditch tackles are part of the game and I wouldn’t want to make any player think he shouldn’t make them if he’s confident he’s going to win the ball. Also seen a tweet from JK that says before last night Hogan had only had 1 Red in 10 years, he’s clearly not the hot head that some have been making him out to be. I'd like to see the footage from the Main Stand. It looked a penalty to me (from the angle we saw) and reading this board last night, everyone seemed to be of the same opinion. Simon Rusk seemed absolutely convinced it wasn't and the Sutton manager has said he didn't think it was a penalty in a Tweet.
There was no need for a last ditch tackle, the striker was going away from goal. There are times a last ditch tackle is required, but not on that occassion. Even if it was a good tackle, the ref has still sent Hogan off and we've lost the game.
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Post by Nik on Feb 3, 2021 18:51:08 GMT
I'd be surprised if that red card is overturned. The only angle will be the one from the stream and it looked a blatant penalty. It'll be worth looking at again when the "highlights" are out, but I can't see how he blatantly got the ball. For the 22nd time - just because it’s a penalty doesn’t mean it’s automatically a red card. Where did I say it was? |
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Post by ebbs on Feb 3, 2021 19:02:37 GMT
Maybe not a hot head in a game then, but what about in and around the team, the dressing room?, what happened after the Torquay game that meant Jim felt he had to leave him out of the squad completely for the next game, what about the times he seemed to be arguing back with Jim on the side. All adds to atmosphere around the club. The Torquay stuff I can’t explain because I don’t know the ins and outs but I’ve seen absolutely loads of our players, including ones he’s signed on more than one occasion, argue with him during games. To be fair I think that when you bring senior pros together who are serial winners like Rooney, Hogan, Maynard then the atmosphere is going to change. They are far less likely to accept mistakes and team mates who they feel aren't on their game. It's harder edged and less appealing, but they have been successful at this level and beyond in the case of Hogan and so that's what we've bought into as a club. I preferred Jim's way but that's gone now so no point harping on about it. What is galling is when for all their seriel success and experience and nastier edge they bottle it in games like last night. Ask yourself who would you rather go for a pint with? Rooney and Hogan or Paul Turnbull an Sam Walker? |
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Post by Ngard on Feb 3, 2021 19:05:12 GMT
To be fair if the tackle is perfect as a few people have described you can’t hold it against him.
It’s not on players to try and change their game on the assumption that the referee is going to get it completely wrong and give a penalty. Of course you have to be more cautious about diving in, but it’s a bit unfair to stick this on Hogan if he has made a good tackle. Indeed, even if the tackle was a foul we should rightly feel aggrieved as the referee has not interpreted the double jeopardy rule.
The fact we all thought it was a bad tackle and a stonewall pen does suggest it was difficult for the referee (I believe he had the same side view as us watching the stream), but all the more reason you err on the side of caution and book the player rather than a straight red. I think the fact he clearly hesitated proves that.
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Post by wnm on Feb 3, 2021 19:16:55 GMT
For the 22nd time - just because it’s a penalty doesn’t mean it’s automatically a red card. Where did I say it was? You talked about it not getting overturned because of the angle not showing him getting the ball but even if he got non of the ball, the fact that he attempted to get is enough for the appeal to be successful. |
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Post by Nik on Feb 3, 2021 20:04:43 GMT
You talked about it not getting overturned because of the angle not showing him getting the ball but even if he got non of the ball, the fact that he attempted to get is enough for the appeal to be successful. Not a chance that's happening. It's either going to be a foul or it isn't. If it is a foul then they back the ref's decision; if it isn't then it's rescinded. They're not going to forensically examine it like it's a retrospective VAR. |
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Post by wnm on Feb 3, 2021 20:20:19 GMT
You talked about it not getting overturned because of the angle not showing him getting the ball but even if he got non of the ball, the fact that he attempted to get is enough for the appeal to be successful. Not a chance that's happening. It's either going to be a foul or it isn't. If it is a foul then they back the ref's decision; if it isn't then it's rescinded. They're not going to forensically examine it like it's a retrospective VAR. Yes they will - clubs pay for appeals and it will be treated properly and judged on what should have happened on the night and by the rules the referee f*cked up on. |
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Post by Nik on Feb 3, 2021 20:28:56 GMT
Not a chance that's happening. It's either going to be a foul or it isn't. If it is a foul then they back the ref's decision; if it isn't then it's rescinded. They're not going to forensically examine it like it's a retrospective VAR. Yes they will - clubs pay for appeals and it will be treated properly and judged on what should have happened on the night and by the rules the referee f*cked up on. I'll be stunned if they do. |
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Post by m20hatter on Feb 3, 2021 21:50:02 GMT
Said it earlier but it is a bit of distraction from the performance this red card, we were bobbins.
I do hope the new view of the challenge gives him some credit back with those who are completely set on all these rumours about him. Which by the way completely conflict with what I’ve heard first hand about him. His reaction was strong, but appears rightly so.
Not heard Maynard get half as much mention for his reaction, was nothing to do with him, but he’s not the player at the centre of the other controversy. If Rusk did pull him off for that reaction, good on him.
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Post by popeye on Feb 3, 2021 22:05:14 GMT
Said it earlier but it is a bit of distraction from the performance this red card, we were bobbins. I do hope the new view of the challenge gives him some credit back with those who are completely set on all these rumours about him. Which by the way completely conflict with what I’ve heard first hand about him. His reaction was strong, but appears rightly so. Not heard Maynard get half as much mention for his reaction, was nothing to do with him, but he’s not the player at the centre of the other controversy. If Rusk did pull him off for that reaction, good on him. Not quite bobbins- we were the better team up until the freak own goal. |
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Post by m20hatter on Feb 3, 2021 22:14:59 GMT
Said it earlier but it is a bit of distraction from the performance this red card, we were bobbins. I do hope the new view of the challenge gives him some credit back with those who are completely set on all these rumours about him. Which by the way completely conflict with what I’ve heard first hand about him. His reaction was strong, but appears rightly so. Not heard Maynard get half as much mention for his reaction, was nothing to do with him, but he’s not the player at the centre of the other controversy. If Rusk did pull him off for that reaction, good on him. Not quite bobbins- we were the better team up until the freak own goal. They didn’t look threatening before that no. However, us knocking it round the back with zero ideas about how to break them down hardly inspired any confidence that we had any chance of winning. Then as soon as the goal went in we were bobbins, even with 11 men. |
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Post by houldsworthhatter on Feb 4, 2021 9:16:45 GMT
Rooney was hardly a failure under Gannon though was he? Wonder if we're making more of the attitude aspect than there actually is to it. No I've said he's a very good player, but Jim himself raised questions over his attitude after the ridiculous red card at Hartlepool. He's scored more goals than anyone else and has probably won us more points than any other player, he should be my favourite player by a long way, but there's just something about his demeanor that doesn't sit well. There's a different attitude to the team than we've ever seen with a Jim team before and I get the impression (granted as an outsider looking in) that Rooney is one of the key characters in this new culture. He could well be the best player in our league, but he's not worth it if he's a bad influence on the rest of the squad. Agreed - we need a squad of Jordan Williams’ 😁 |
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Post by timberwolf on Feb 4, 2021 10:22:06 GMT
I think it’s unfair for any player to be told he would have been better doing something differently when he’s (apparently) made a perfectly well timed tackle and the referee has messed it up. You’ll often hear the pundits on MOTD saying how well times a tackle was and if he’s got it wrong it would have been a penalty, last ditch tackles are part of the game and I wouldn’t want to make any player think he shouldn’t make them if he’s confident he’s going to win the ball. Also seen a tweet from JK that says before last night Hogan had only had 1 Red in 10 years, he’s clearly not the hot head that some have been making him out to be. we would have something to worry about if our centre half and captain never attempted to make this challenge and just ran alomgside the lad to put the ball in the net. it was not a trip from behind but a honest attempt to win the ball. pen or not it was a honest tackle. if players are not allowed to do this or attackers being given the benefit of the doubt in these circumstances they might as well go down the line those at the top might really want. banning tackling. funny how the boot is usually on the other foot where attackers are regularly penalised on corners for what looks like giving their marker a dirty look. the game is getting well and truly fu---d up by those at the top and their pet match officials following to the letter everything they are told just to climb the greasy poll. |
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