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Post by hedleyverity on Apr 17, 2024 18:40:26 GMT
Good news from the council website is that The Coal Authority have declared that they have no objections as Edgeley Park isn't in a mining area.
All the things in the land that are desperate for funding and someone's paid to write letters like that.
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Post by Stranded Hatter on Apr 17, 2024 19:03:02 GMT
It's probably worth noting that the only part of planning application that has gone in so far is for the environmental scoping of the whole redevelopment. No actual applications have gone in yet. Can't start building it till that's all ticked off.
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Post by william72 on Apr 17, 2024 21:44:52 GMT
Good news from the council website is that The Coal Authority have declared that they have no objections as Edgeley Park isn't in a mining area. All the things in the land that are desperate for funding and someone's paid to write letters like that. I thought the whole of Edgeley was built on a mine? Well that's what I was told when I bought my house!
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Post by David Schofield on Apr 18, 2024 7:20:14 GMT
Oh it is!!! I’m all for ground improvements but I really don’t think we should jump into anything before fully understanding the financial implications £40-60M of debt seems likely to me That's fine. But it's like any house improvements. If we get £40m debt, what extra revenue would that debt generate. If they built housing as part of it as an example how much yield would it make? How about the extra seats hire much more would they bring in? Also how much value add would it add to the overall asset ie the club and ground if there was a new stand? Extra revenue is only generated by selling extra seats/advertising/pies etc and there is no guarantee of any of that The cost of servicing £40M in debt, never mind paying it down, is going to be (even with the best commercial credit rating in the world, something football clubs simply don’t have) £2M a year, that’s every year, forever And ultimately it won’t add any value to the Club, if we go tits up because we can’t service the debt whether you have 11,000 or 17,000 seats makes zero difference I am not saying do nothing but before we do anything let’s make sure we understand the financial implications and real life consequences fully
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TC
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Post by TC on Apr 18, 2024 7:38:02 GMT
The sooner we get rid of the embarrassment that is the Railway end the better! Agree with that but it's not going to happen overnight. For next season, it will be interesting to see how much of an increase there will be in ST sales to start with. Presumably the price will go up which might put some off. Currently we are at around 5,500 and if we sell 7k next season, that will only leave around 2k for walk-ups after allowing for the visitors 1k or so. Therefore we are likely to be near enough sold out for all games, even if we are around mid-table.
Bournemouth and Luton have done very well with similar capacity to EP and given the huge cost of expanding EP, I wouldn't be surprised if the plans get delayed for quite a while.
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Post by timberwolf on Apr 18, 2024 7:43:48 GMT
Extra revenue is only generated by selling extra seats/advertising/pies etc and there is no guarantee of any of that The cost of servicing £40M in debt, never mind paying it down, is going to be (even with the best commercial credit rating in the world, something football clubs simply don’t have) £2M a year, that’s every year, forever And ultimately it won’t add any value to the Club, if we go tits up because we can’t service the debt whether you have 11,000 or 17,000 seats makes zero difference I am not saying do nothing but before we do anything let’s make sure we understand the financial implications and real life consequences fully Understand where you are coming from but ground improvements are necessary. There is a large cost to it but once done the ground will be fit fo many generations to come. Far better a long term investment than splashing the cash on players who could be crap and only with us for a few years at the best. The main arguement is again the size of the ground when its finished. Still feel we would not fill a 20k and, but does it matter if we cannot and have a few seats round us thats empty. Doubt the cost between say a 15k or a 20k EP would be far different. Think our financial problems of the past make some fans more worried than at other clubs.
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Post by countybumpkin on Apr 18, 2024 7:44:27 GMT
The sooner we get rid of the embarrassment that is the Railway end the better! Agree with that but it's not going to happen overnight. For next season, it will be interesting to see how much of an increase there will be in ST sales to start with. Presumably the price will go up which might put some off. Currently we are at around 5,500 and if we sell 7k next season, that will only leave around 2k for walk-ups after allowing for the visitors 1k or so. Therefore we are likely to be near enough sold out for all games, even if we are around mid-table.
Bournemouth and Luton have done very well with similar capacity to EP and given the huge cost of expanding EP, I wouldn't be surprised if the plans get delayed for quite a while.
If there’s going to be a significant delay, we’ve got to stick a temporary roof on the RE (assuming planning permission allows us to do so obvs).
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Post by timberwolf on Apr 18, 2024 7:47:09 GMT
The sooner we get rid of the embarrassment that is the Railway end the better! Agree with that but it's not going to happen overnight. For next season, it will be interesting to see how much of an increase there will be in ST sales to start with. Presumably the price will go up which might put some off. Currently we are at around 5,500 and if we sell 7k next season, that will only leave around 2k for walk-ups after allowing for the visitors 1k or so. Therefore we are likely to be near enough sold out for all games, even if we are around mid-table.
Bournemouth and Luton have done very well with similar capacity to EP and given the huge cost of expanding EP, I wouldn't be surprised if the plans get delayed for quite a while.
Just hope the club do not get greedy as supply will outstrip demand. Is there a limit in the number of ST clubs are allowed to sell against ground capacity. In the past i am sure i have heard that clubs had a waiting list for ST purchase but match day tickets are still available.
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Post by Cale Green Hatter on Apr 18, 2024 8:04:19 GMT
Good news from the council website is that The Coal Authority have declared that they have no objections as Edgeley Park isn't in a mining area. All the things in the land that are desperate for funding and someone's paid to write letters like that. I thought the whole of Edgeley was built on a mine? Well that's what I was told when I bought my house! It's true. Some of England's largest mines lay under Edgeley. My great grandfather passed away a few years ago. One morning he was found sat on the loo and as no reason could be found for his passing an inquest was held. The Coroner asked my great grandma whether he had any strange toilet habits. She replied "no, other than holding his breath until he heard a splash". I'll get my coat.
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Post by houldsworthhatter on Apr 18, 2024 8:27:12 GMT
That's fine. But it's like any house improvements. If we get £40m debt, what extra revenue would that debt generate. If they built housing as part of it as an example how much yield would it make? How about the extra seats hire much more would they bring in? Also how much value add would it add to the overall asset ie the club and ground if there was a new stand? Extra revenue is only generated by selling extra seats/advertising/pies etc and there is no guarantee of any of that The cost of servicing £40M in debt, never mind paying it down, is going to be (even with the best commercial credit rating in the world, something football clubs simply don’t have) £2M a year, that’s every year, forever And ultimately it won’t add any value to the Club, if we go tits up because we can’t service the debt whether you have 11,000 or 17,000 seats makes zero difference I am not saying do nothing but before we do anything let’s make sure we understand the financial implications and real life consequences fully I think you may be insulting Mark Stott’s intelligence if you think he’s just saying “let’s build it and f**k the cost”. I have no doubt the reason for things taking “so long” is that they’ve been doing the maths along with the short medium and long term implications.
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TC
Contributor
Posts: 795
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Post by TC on Apr 18, 2024 8:33:59 GMT
Agree with that but it's not going to happen overnight. For next season, it will be interesting to see how much of an increase there will be in ST sales to start with. Presumably the price will go up which might put some off. Currently we are at around 5,500 and if we sell 7k next season, that will only leave around 2k for walk-ups after allowing for the visitors 1k or so. Therefore we are likely to be near enough sold out for all games, even if we are around mid-table.
Bournemouth and Luton have done very well with similar capacity to EP and given the huge cost of expanding EP, I wouldn't be surprised if the plans get delayed for quite a while.
Just hope the club do not get greedy as supply will outstrip demand. Is there a limit in the number of ST clubs are allowed to sell against ground capacity. In the past i am sure i have heard that clubs had a waiting list for ST purchase but match day tickets are still available. Good question there timber. I've had a quick search and can't find any national rule about this. I suspect it's up to each club to decide and some leave a greater allocation available for match days than others. For example Liverpool have 27k ST holders and a massive waiting list. At Bournemouth, if you fail to renew your ST, "the seat is released for general admission sale on a match-by-match basis".
Be interesting to see if County cap the number.
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Post by Josh on Apr 18, 2024 8:45:43 GMT
Agree with that but it's not going to happen overnight. For next season, it will be interesting to see how much of an increase there will be in ST sales to start with. Presumably the price will go up which might put some off. Currently we are at around 5,500 and if we sell 7k next season, that will only leave around 2k for walk-ups after allowing for the visitors 1k or so. Therefore we are likely to be near enough sold out for all games, even if we are around mid-table.
Bournemouth and Luton have done very well with similar capacity to EP and given the huge cost of expanding EP, I wouldn't be surprised if the plans get delayed for quite a while.
If there’s going to be a significant delay, we’ve got to stick a temporary roof on the RE (assuming planning permission allows us to do so obvs). Indeed. We have to do something with the RE as it is actively putting some people off coming more regularly. Understandably so.
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Post by Chaddz09 on Apr 18, 2024 9:02:49 GMT
If there’s going to be a significant delay, we’ve got to stick a temporary roof on the RE (assuming planning permission allows us to do so obvs). Indeed. We have to do something with the RE as it is actively putting some people off coming more regularly. Understandably so. Think I read somewhere the a new roof could cost anywhere in the region to £1.5m. If that's the case using ballpark figures, based on current matchday prices and a full 1,400 sell out per game, it would take around 48 games (2+ seasons) just to break even on that investment. To then have planning permission and then erect (lol) such a stand, I assume, would take a few months on top and perhaps a similar amount of time to pull down. I would hope we will have made a start on the RE within that timeframe so it's not really a feasible option IMO
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Post by timberwolf on Apr 18, 2024 9:35:16 GMT
Think I read somewhere the a new roof could cost anywhere in the region to £1.5m. If that's the case using ballpark figures, based on current matchday prices and a full 1,400 sell out per game, it would take around 48 games (2+ seasons) just to break even on that investment. To then have planning permission and then erect (lol) such a stand, I assume, would take a few months on top and perhaps a similar amount of time to pull down. I would hope we will have made a start on the RE within that timeframe so it's not really a feasible option IMO Actually it would take longer as i,d guess even in its present state it would sell out next season if the weather was decent against certain opponents. Even if it was not televised it would sell out and most attend if we drew one of the manc clubs in a knock out game with the snow and rain falling.
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Post by Stranded Hatter on Apr 18, 2024 9:40:51 GMT
Extra revenue is only generated by selling extra seats/advertising/pies etc and there is no guarantee of any of that The cost of servicing £40M in debt, never mind paying it down, is going to be (even with the best commercial credit rating in the world, something football clubs simply don’t have) £2M a year, that’s every year, forever And ultimately it won’t add any value to the Club, if we go tits up because we can’t service the debt whether you have 11,000 or 17,000 seats makes zero difference I am not saying do nothing but before we do anything let’s make sure we understand the financial implications and real life consequences fully Understand where you are coming from but ground improvements are necessary. There is a large cost to it but once done the ground will be fit fo many generations to come. Far better a long term investment than splashing the cash on players who could be crap and only with us for a few years at the best. The main arguement is again the size of the ground when its finished. Still feel we would not fill a 20k and, but does it matter if we cannot and have a few seats round us thats empty. Doubt the cost between say a 15k or a 20k EP would be far different. Think our financial problems of the past make some fans more worried than at other clubs. Meadow Lane is a little under 20k. There was what 11,500 in there on Tuesday night and it didn’t look awful like everyone was rattling around. If we end up with 15-18k across four separate stands then it’s not going to be awful if attendances dip to half that. It’s not like those new bowls which really feel like everyone is rattling around. End of the day some of the work is essential. The Main Stand roof has been on its last legs for decades. Makes sense to use the opportunity to expand its capacity at the same time as extending the roof. The Railway End isn’t fit for purpose, and I’m certain it puts walk ups off not having a roof, especially when it’s chucking it down. Even if we never get the new Popside (which I think would be a damn shame) those two need doing at the very least. The long term benefits will outweigh the cost. We do need to get the planning application in though. Asap.
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